Saskatoon real estate: Week in review (May 26-30 2008)
New residential listing activity in the Saskatoon real estate market continued at a more moderate pace for the second week in a row with a 185 (197 total residential) single-family homes and condominiums being placed on the market. Active listing edged up slightly from 1,125 last week, closing out this week at 1,154 units including 1,059 single-family homes and condos.
There is some evidence that listing activity is beginning to moderate to a more normal, perhaps even below normal pace. While new residential listings in May 2008 came in at 783, compared to 707 in May 2007, a quick audit of our MLS system suggests that it’s likely that fewer properties were listed in May 2008, than last May. I note a total of 212 cancellations were processed last month. I checked the status of about two-dozen of these cancelled listings and all but one had been re-listed, causing them to appear in the “new listing” category more than once. This is a common strategy that agents use when adjusting the price of a listing. By cancelling and re-listing, the property has the benefit of a prominent location in our system and agents more easily notice the reduction. This kind of activity was almost non-existent in May 2007.
Yet, the database of active listings grew by more than 300 units through the month of May. Most of this growth can be attributed to a decline in overall demand. At this point, there are 368 sales reported for May. Last year, there were 581 sales for the same period. May 2008 will be the third month of declining unit sales, which shouldn’t come as a big surprise.
Anyway, I’ll get back to the past week by noting that 82 houses and condos were reported sold, up fairly significantly from last week but still below average when compared to recent weeks.
Overbidding activity cooled off again with just about 10% of the weekly sales reporting sale prices above list price. The average overbid on those sales dropped below $10,000 again. 57 home buyers managed to get a bit of a break, negotiating an average of $8,477 off of the asking price.
The average selling price of a Saskatoon home was $309,158 for the week, the strongest recorded in the past five weeks, excepting the week of May 12-16, when a $1.7 million dollar sale skewed the number to just over $326,000.
See a Google map displaying the boundaries of Saskatoon real estate “areas” here
Data collection and calculation for our statistical reports
I’m always happy to answer your Saskatoon real estate questions. All of my contact info is here. Please feel free to call or email.
Follow our daily updates on Twitter @SaskatoonHomes.
Norm Fisher
Royal LePage Saskatoon Real Estate
There's 195 Comments So Far
May 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am
To start this off, I’d still say 1,154 units currently listed, up from last week, and 82 sold still seems like more of a buyer’s market.
That 212 properties may have been cancelled and re-listed to hilight a reduction in price, further speaks to more of a buyers’ market and buyers unwilling to pay an unreasonable amount, with all the selection available. This may mean not quite 783 new listing in May, but at 1154 current listings, we’re up anyway and some of these “new” listings are reflection necessary price reductions. As does 57 of 82 properties selling for under listing price. Buyers are no longer in a rush to buy whatever is out there.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Hey Norm,
what are your thought on what happened to the demand? Is this just the time of year where demand drops off, or is this related to the decline of the alberta market, and the lack of migration, or have the speculators stop purchasing homes?
May 11th, 2009 at 11:10 am
Having spent the last week viewing 8 – 9 homes per day and making 4 reasonable offers on vacant homes in 1 week I have come to conclusion that this IS going to become a buyers market. Even my agent was surprised at how many vacant homes we came upon. A lot of vacant homes and 1st time homebuyers not being able to afford to buy = a market reduction on the horizon. I’ve changed my focus for the time being I am looking to rent and wait out this volatility. And I am thinking I’m not the only one begining to think this way.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am
I’m all about what moving said, refuse to overbid in the current market, bid a healthy amount below asking, ie what you think it’s worth, and either you get the house for a fair price or you save yourself the money. With homes being “relisted” to highlight “reductions” I’m guessing sooner or later, you will get a house at a decent price. Just may require renting in a less than ideal location for a couple months, easy if already renting and looking to upgrade.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Okay Norm — dumb question, but…
I’ve been keeping track of the number of listings on my own, for curiosity’s sake more than anything else.
When I count the number of listings in the MLS today, I get a total of 1211: 183 properties under 200,000; 315 properties between 200-300,000; 379 properties between 300 and 400,000, and 334 over 400,000.
That’s 1211. (I feel like a Sesame Street character…)
Why the difference? I always check to be sure the same property doesn’t show up twice, but the system seems accurate.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:16 am
saskhouses.com is reporting it’s 2 nd consecutive month of decreased listing prices
May 2008 “was $332,126, a decrease of just over $3,000″ from April
April 2008 “$335,899 during the month of April, a decrease of $6,490 from March”
So, moderate decreases, but still the asking price by May 2008 was nearly $10,000 less than March 2008, when the market peaked in average list price, and decreases, though small, have become consistent over the past 2 months.
Saskhouses has also seen an increase in listings, not taken into account in MLS totals, so inventory city wide is up. Seems consistent with the 10 to 15% house price drop people seem to be predicting on here.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Jim,
I agree.
Carl,
Affordability.
jrochest,
Can’t say for sure but MLSOnline is often a few days behind the local MLS. It doesn’t operate in real time.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:17 am
I actually found an aent to present an offer at 20K lower than asking today and even he was saying that was a very fair asking price, but the owners who have already bought a house (I know this because the house I bid on was vacant) still counter offered, I apologised to the agent but thanked him for his time, and said I’d keep in touch, if the house hasn’t sold in another couple of weeks I’ll come back and rebid 25K lower, it really is getting to the point where owners are not in te drivers seat and if buyers would stop over paying out of fear of being priced out prices will come down to more resonable levels. If everyone stopped buying for 2 weeks oh boy would the ripple effect prices in the buyers favour. I think we should start the trend. It will be interesting to see if the moderator lets this post. considering he makes more money when the buyer over pays… funny how he and his friends are the ones saying the market is hot …buy buy buy.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Moving From Toronto,
Guess you dont read the blog much….I think all those conspiracy cheerios are going to ur head. Well maybe I work for the moderator too….. oooooo we are all around you!
p.s.
Boo!
p.s.s
pay more!
May 11th, 2009 at 11:19 am
I’m a firm beleiver in paying as much for a house as you can. But I refuse to get caught up in some sort of frenzy because everyone thinks this place is going to run out of space..look around you my friend you can drive 15 minutes in any direction from the center of town (sorry city) and be out of the populated areas
May 11th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Moving –
Trust me, I share your skepticism, but Norm’s a good realtor, and an honest guy.
I don’t know what his motivation is to keep feeding all us dreadful bears
but he’s not one of the speculators who drove prices up last year. He’s pretty balanced in his approach to this blog.
You have to bear in mind that up to last year, most realtors in this town made a moderate living, not a killing: most twisters would have moved to Calgary long ago.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Moving,
Good luck in the housing search. Hope you enjoy our wonderful city.
Regarding an above post, before taking a shot at Norm, reread the last year or so of posts and see if you can find even one that would lend any credit to your accusation. Norm is a big boy, he can fend for himself. I just know a lot of us appreciate this forum and the work he puts into it. He has never, in the year and a half I have been reading and posting, encouraged anyone to jump in and buy so he can make a buck. In fact, if you search, you may find quite the obvious.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:21 am
Moving,
There’s not much that this “moderator” doesn’t allow to be said here, even if it’s unfair. Best wishes.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:22 am
OF INTEREST TO SELLERS:
I just sold my house. Got an offer from the first showing (slightly below asking). I wasn’t going to sell until fall but the way the market was going I thought I might as well list before others start reducing. I realized it is a buyer’s market and they will expect bang for their buck. Fortunately when I looked at my competition I was happier than a butcher’s dog. It seems people still think you can just throw up a for sale sign and it will sell itself.
It took a month of hard work before listing but my goal was to have a house that looked like brand new (was only 4 yrs old): no dings in the wall, new baseboards, no clutter, cleaned and washed top to bottom, well manicured yard, not one flaw. IT WORKED!. Yes there are a lot of homes for sale but if you put in an effort there will be people wanting to buy because it stands out from the rest. If you are not prepared to be in a buyers market and spend time and money peparing (like a majority of listings) be prepared to be waiting.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Moving from Toronto,
leave your attitude in Eastern Canada. Maybe all realtors are like that there but there are some decent realtors here. Norm included. If it was not for him, you and all of us would not have the information about the market that we do. You should be thanking him, not bashing him.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:24 am
You miss understand I am not bashing Norm he does his job well. rep the seller rep the buyer which ever is his job. Good for him. I have no eastern attidude george because I grew up in the west just bein ther for 20 years and learned a thing or two why don’t you expand your opinion to include a country instead of an area. sure Norm is a good guy ( btw thanks for havin an open forum) but look at what is happenin here and research what happened in GTA ( greater Toronto area for westerners like “G”) in 88 – 89 I’m not going to be part of that. Your being fueled by fear and something that is 3 maybe 4 yrs off. This market is not sustainable. 1st time buyers can ‘t afford it.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:27 am
BTW good for you cam cause a lot of people in this ity are in for a rude awaking in the next couple of weeks when there house is not worth what is was 2 months ago.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:28 am
and another BTW “G” if’n your think’n I coming here without so much as a clue. wtf you think??? living east of Thunder bay is the only way you will understand what tis going on here ?? I’ve been watching you blog and reading the archives for about 6mths, really figuring out if this was for my family. The part i didn’t count on was the lull in the greed by the home owners in Jan and Feb. I was expecting this blip would have worked it self out before I got here.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am
I think realtors telling people their houses would go up 50,000 (from March prices, ouch not going to happen!) did drive a lot of the boom. Now that people are sitting back, looking at the shear volume available, and house/job options in other cities (I don’t care if you like Red Deer, Winnipeg, whatever, a higher paying job and cheaper house speaks to a lot of people more than Lydia’s loud bands do) prices and frenzied buying out of fear are both dropping. That, and a lot of people I know bought a second property as investment, now that they’ve all bought one (after driving the price up on each other) affordability is an issue, supplies up and prices are dropping … and a few are aggravating situation by selling the condos!
Norm happens to be the only real estate agent who seems to have publicy admitted the market is over valued/priced whatever. Sure there are others. But while Moving may have been trying to lay the blame on Norm, a LOT of other realtors in Saskatoon DO share in the blame when the owner of a brand new (circa 1980ish) Sutherland condo realizes that it won’t sell for the 240,000 they paid for it for year and years. Burn. Their neighbour just listed for 200,000.
Guess a temporary stupidity tax on over bidders, or jerks trying to turn a quick buck and now caught with condos worth less than when they bought them a few months back.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Hey I was utterly appalled when I found a condo on Sask ave W for over 1/2 a mil. Common folks WAKE UP! YES!! that condo has a nice view of the river but for Ch$#% sake I can move down the river 1/2 a km and get the same thing. cheaper…. This place is not running out of space stop being duped. The rest of the country is watching…….. and shaking their heads! learn from others mistakes.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am
I know that people don’t like the referance about Toronto but… that is a city that has 3X the population of this entire province not to mention more than 10X this place… and prices there are NOT reflective of this town/city. Look it up….. Erindale, Silversprings …. heck even MP is what TO would call a suburb… like it or not downtown is downtown.. the rest of you are the burbs and burbs no matter where you are do not attract as much $ when I can buy huge property 10 mins away for the same $….. where do you actually think the city will be at this rate of growth in 2012?? which is well with in you life time.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Oh and BTW koodoos to NOrm for pricing his house in SS at a more resonable market value I noticed it sold VERY quick when priced closer to where it should be.
OK GN from the EAST.
MFT
May 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am
Moving, Saskatoon’s all about hype. All you have to do is tell people you talk to about the ever increasing inventory, reduced prices and what happened in TO, and people here will tell each other and next thing you know, we’ll be back to a happy non media induced better than inflation, but less than 51% growth rate.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Cam,
Thanks for sharing your experience and some excellent advice for sellers. Congratulations on your sale.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:33 am
Moving,
“If everyone stopped buying for 2 weeks oh boy would the ripple effect prices in the buyers favour. ”
Well the same could be said for sellers, if the volume reduced then prices would increase, I believe this is how all this over bidding got started.
Can you tell my why it’s just fine for you underbid a price by 20k, but if a seller charges what you percieve as an additional 20k it’s appaulling, seems like a double standard to me. I know a few people keep saying the sky is falling, and I have heard this for 5 years. relax.
Secondly, counter offers are part of the negotiating process, if you don’t want to counter, you don’t have to. You don’t need to get upset by counter offers, it’s not meant as an insult. The sellers is trying to get the most he can for a property, and yes you are trying to spend as little as possible. You look like a tire quicker that’s only interested in low balling sellers at this point.
I am not sure about the details, purchase price etc…, but if the differnces at the start of negotiating is 20k, what is the differnce at the end of negotiating? 5k,10k? not alot. If you like the house, and it’s a longterm investment, why keep seaching??? To each their own.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Sellers are asking more than they know the property is worth, trying to dupe buyers into over paying out of fear.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:34 am
And sellers likely want to sell ASAP in a lot of cases, if buyers in a stable rent situation don’t need to buy, they should hold off. Prices are softening and supply/selection is increasing.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Norm:
Traditionally, what is the busy season for buyers? I was always told that was in June-September…
May 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am
To Whom It May Concern,
All you guys give me hope that the house I bought for 134k that is now worth 300k is gonna be 134k…..with prices like that I will buy another house! Who knows maybe i will start another boom with my 1 house sale and then u guys will be back next week saying it will not last and the world will end. And then some guy from Toronto will tell me Im gonna be poor again and my house will be dirt cheap again so he can come buy a house here like he wants and every1 else wants which might be why the house prices went up but who knows maybe we will slip 50% below the national average again.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Jim,
I don’t understand comment regarding fear. There is a good supply of housing, and I think anyone buying or selling a house is aware of that. In any market whether buyers market, or seller market there are sellers that price themselves out of the market, and get no response. I don’t see how the fear aspect fits in right now.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am
Mithan,
Typically, March through August are the strongest months. May usually represents the peak as far as the number of units sold.
Carl,
I agree. I’m not seeing too many buyers that are in a hurry out of fear right now.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am
It’s funny Armoth can laugh at ideas the market would go down and is over valued, sounds proposterous, almost as much as the market going up 51% in one year…
I think the fear is that buyers will be priced out of the market not that there won’t be units for sale, we still are getting a strong “boom” and price increase message from local media/politicians/other real estate agents (friends who have bought places over past few months told prices will be 40 or 50,000 more within the year, never backed up)
… still told prices will keep going up, worried that if they don’t buy now, it will be more tomorrow,
no one seems keen on letting everyone know that’s not the case anymore
May 11th, 2009 at 11:39 am
Things seem really tense around here. Sellers are getting nervous and frustrated buyers are getting impatient for the market to swing their way. The comments lately seem to reflect that everyone is on edge as of late.
The next few months should prove to be interesting…
May 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I agree with you Jeff,
I made the point that there are sellers that price themselves out of the market. I think there will be buyers that will do the same. The challenge for those waiting for the sky to fall is how do determine when to buy into the market. There is the possibility that you purchase one day, and within the next month the market price of the house drops by 10%, making ANY purchase is a risk, which is the same risk as buying a house today.
There seems to be two types of fear/risk always prevalent:
1) buy now before the price goes up
2) don’t buy now because the price is going to drop
Believers of both sides of risk will try to point to market fundamentals of why they correct. Are they picking the correct and complete fundamentals?
There will be perceived risk whether you purchase a house, I think there are strategies for minimizing risk. i.e. longterm investments…
May 11th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Armoth –
Your 134,000 house is only worth 300,000 if you can get someone to buy it for that much. If you can sell it, good for you.
That said, I don’t think you’re going to be out much if the market does fall again: you still have a nice, affordable mortgage in a house you presumably enjoy living in. If it’s a rental, you probably cover your costs — mortgage, insurance, taxes, maintenance — with your rent.
It’s the people who are *buying* at 300,000 that will have problems. And that’s why there’s an imbalance of buyers and sellers.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:42 am
I have a conspiracy theory…With everyone that bought apartments to convert and with all the inventory currently converting, i would wager 2 things…
1. the price of condo’s will be driven up more giving the average sellign price a boost in order to see ‘how far’ they can raise condo prices before people can’t buy them too (already in that catagory personally)
2. when people can’t buy the condo’s that’s when the slow down will happen…hopefully i’ll be long gone but yeah it’s all insanity.
As for the person above who said they sold their house after fixing it up and putting effort into it, i commend. I think that is the way to sell. Most of these listings on mls, are lucky to have more than 1 photo…and like the house on 108th street with foundation cracks you could pass messages through, there is no effort and i bet they are puzzled why they arent’ selling faster…
May 11th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Its funny Jim thinks that Saskatchewan should be 50% discount on houses here for no good reason. The overpricing is happening by delusional flippers once they are gone my house will still be worth over 220k even if the market does tank 20% i know that for sure. For some reason the bears on this blog live in a lala land of thinking its gonna go back down to the dirt cheap housing we used to enjoy. To be honest i dont think it will ever come close to preboom levels unless Sask and Canada goes into the crapper. We have a beautiful city and before the boom housing was so cheap when i bought this house i live in now i actually thought about buying 1 for my mom too. I came to the conclusion already even tho i do want to buy 1 more home for my mother that the bargain we once enjoyed in gone the cats out of the bag. Saskatoon is on the world stage now. If you guys want you can tell every1 to not buy a house and if you make things as cheap as they once were ill kiss ya!
p.s.
I have crappy english
May 11th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Actually, the prices rose by 54% in 2007; that means they’ll fall by 108% to get back to where they were in 2006.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:46 am
The amount of uninformed bickering on this board is disappointing. A guess a little information is a dangerous thing.
After my own exhaustive study on Saskatoon’s real estate market, with much help from Norm’s board, and other sources, I have concluded that the market is likely to follow three possible routes in the coming months:
1. Prices will remain at current levels.
2. Prices will continue to rise.
3. Prices will fall.
that is all.
Mike
May 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am
All you math people grrrr make me look so bad =o(
Wow Mike that was very informative now we will all know what to do!!!111! =D
May 11th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Also I have found a list of the top places to live on Moneysense it lists Saskatoon as 17th and Red Deer as 74th the average house price is skewed by abit but the idea is still the same Saskatoon rocks ur socks!
May 11th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Armoth, you’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t think they should fall by more than 10 to 15%, we were under valued before, now over valued. He was laughing at idea it could go down, I literally said “It’s funny Armoth can laugh at ideas the market would go down and is over valued, sounds proposterous, almost as much as the market going up 51% in one year…”.
NO mention by me of how much it could go down, just that it is premature to say it won’t (Armoth’s view).
And that it’s over valued. Few argue with this.
I stick to 10 to 15% over the next year to get us back to a chunk cheaper than Alberta (pays more) and closer to Manitoba, which is much more affordable.
Jroch, “that means they’ll fall by 108% to get back to where they were in 2006″ go ask your math teacher what falling by 100% means.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:50 am
“Saskatoon is on the world stage now”
Funny how if you meet some one from south of Montana or South Dakota, they usually haven’t even heard of Saskatoon.
All know about Calgary and Edmonton though!
May 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
And “average price skewed by a bit”?
Those Saskatoon as a good place to live,
I’d argue 17 in Canada not great anyway,
all have Saskatoon at substantially cheaper, many
with average housing prices only one half to two thirds what they are right now!
Usually why Saskatoon does well, as those surveys we used to do well in, all had us as substantially cheaper (e.g. $200,000 ish ave. house) than we are now.
Sure isn’t crime, with Saskatoon #1 in violent crime, over twice as much as Toronto.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Sounds like you hate it here Jim =o( but i do agree with you on the 10-15% correction. If they ever do start the Flats tho im sure it will be way crazier here but there is no sure thing so who knows.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Time for the Monday Specubridge counter:
Saskhouses 13 listings, 1 offer pending since April!
MLS 51 properties listed
2 sales in May ( not including this past weekend)
With around 200 hundred properties being finished this summer and if we assume 30% are speculation, you can add another 60-70 to that number.(probably low) Speculators will need to cut their prices to improve on the 5% chance of selling an overpriced spec home in a month.
( oh, silly me, May is a terrible month for selling. I just realised that May is not historically a big month in sales) Maybe in June there will be double output for sales. I think 6 sales is doable.)
Great time to be a speculator in Specubridge!
May 11th, 2009 at 11:53 am
At what point do you think the speculators will figure out that they should not enter the market?
I am not sure stonebridge is the only area with this problem. I am guessing there will be a point that the speculators will not see the roi needed to continue doing what the do, and will choose to do something else.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am
jrochest,
So, I have you predicting a drop in the average sale price to around -$25,000.
It will truly be sad if I can’t even give them away.
Mike,
That’s what we call a win, win, win prediction.
Carl,
Most of the experienced “speculators” have probably already gone home.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:54 am
There may well be a 10% correction but prices will resume their upward trend soon after and five years from now, none of this discussion will matter at all. Inflation is going strong everywhere and energy prices are firm which means a strong Saskatoon economy. The only thing that could derail this scenario is a commodity crash but the supply-demand imbalances look like they will persist for years due to structural problems and government nationalization world wide. I’m not worried about the Saskatoon market at all. And no, I’m not selling my property in Saskatoon to trade for one in Red Deer.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Ron,
You make an interesting point when you say, “I’m not selling my property in Saskatoon…” I actually said something similar today. It does bring a little perspective when you consider this; 1,157 Saskatoon property owners would love to sell today. 83,946 are preferring to hold onto their properties even at these high prices.
jrochest,
Another thought on the discrepancy between MLS Online and the local MLS. It just occurred to me that properties under conditional sale also appear on the website as active listings. There are presently about 70 properties flagged “conditional” that no longer appear in the “active” results when I search the agent MLS.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Ok I need to set on thing straight, I am buying a house here but I am going to get the best deal I can and paying 450K for a 1300sq/ft bi-level that has never seen any upgrades since the day the current owner took possession is NOT a good deal, the fact that there are homes listed at 370K in arbor creek that back onto the sutherland railyards ??? but I can get a house in Lakeview for te same price and no trains.. this is where the inconsistancy of the market pricing is absolutely frustrating. I have no problem with counter offers, but when you start bickering about an offer when you have had NO offers on your house for a month at it’s current price maybe you should give your head a shake and realize that your house is not worth today what is was last summer. BTW the sky is not falling, it’s just coming back into reach of the average working person.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am
I think housing prices are going to continue to drop over the next several months. It’s a buyers market and if you can afford a new home there will be some good deals coming soon!
May 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am
example of such inconsistancies MLS # 309615 on Cowley road in Erindale & just around the corner on Steiger MLS #310152 30K price differance for homes that are similar size/decoration/lot size/distance from school/ the list goes on.(please explain the differance to me so that I can understand because I don’t right now). half of that 30k is what it is costing me to move my belongings to here so I have no choice I have to try and talk these people into reason, because apparently the pricing structure has no reason. every home owner has seen a neighbors house go in a bidding war last year and because that house across the street or next door went for this price or even in some cases a little less last summer my house is worth that and more. The sellers of today must be advised by there realtor before even listing there home that it is a different market than it was even 5 – 6 months ago. Along with location ..location. .location …they must remember TIMING IS EVERYTHING, and they have jumped onto this wave too late as Norm has stated the real speculators have one home…why because a smart speculator never tries to get in on second wave. the only buyers left are legitamate home owners looking to have a roof over the heads of their children at a reasonable price, which for the last little while has been very difficult to find.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Carl,
The reason I mention Stonebridge with Speculators is that every house in Stonebridge is built by the builders. So any house for sale is by a speculator. They have done no work and will profit 100-150k for any house sold for 475k and up.
There are houses for sale in Willowgrove and Hampton Village as well, but many of these homes are being built by small builders. At least these guys have worked for there profit. The ones for sale in Stonebridge are pathetic. ( Maybe I am just jealous for people buying for 375k and listing 1 year later for 499k like the one reduced 40k, still could reduce by 80k and come out ahead.)
It is hard to tell which are speculators in the other new areas, but if for sale in Stonebridge it is a speculator. Plain and simple.
I hope most enjoy becoming landlords.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:58 am
George the only problem is they are looking for the renter to pay most of te cost of the mortgage most rental units are @ 1200 – 2000/month. But I hope they end up with a bunch of non carin students as tenants.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Moving,
You raise some good points. Some sellers just aren’t adjusted to the present realities. The balance has just recently swung in the buyer’s favour in the past thirty days. Some of them are still going through the stages of mourning.
My associate wrote an offer for a past client yesterday. The guy has just learned that his schooling will keep him in Saskatoon for a few more years so he decided to buy an apartment. He picked one that is priced at $184,900. It’s been on the market since May 9. He offered $176,000 and later made it known that he was willing to pay $180,000. The seller insisted on $182,500 and lost the opportunity. Apparently doesn’t understand that there is plenty to look at.
Regarding your next comment. Why let the more expensive property bother you? Why not just avoid it? You can tell before looking at it that it’s out of whack with other properties for sale. Avoid it like everyone else will. Target the ones that look best by the numbers. Those are the most realistic sellers who want to make a deal work.
May 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Norm
Why are your peers not try’n to wake their clients up to the reality ?? A price on a location is only valid if you find someone willing to pay the price. I have witnessed/crossed pathes with a lot of the same people over the last week and they are first time buyers priced out of the market of starter homes, because the people currently owning those starter homes are as you say in mourning, well your job is to lead them through the seven stages of grief and sell their property for a good value in the market of June 2008 not January, they must be made to realize dynamics have changed and that to sell a commodity they must be competitively priced unlike the mls listings in my previous posting
May 11th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Not to sound so bullish – but I think the next five years for Saskatchewan still look exceptionally bright and “fresh” positive news is still coming out each week.
I’ve been reading tonight through the recent financial documentation of a number of energy companies and trusts. Quite a number (Crescent Point, as just one dramatic example) are really ramping up capital spending (in a big way) in this province which will certainly flow through the entire provincial economy by way of royalties, new jobs, land sales and tax. Further, the return on investments for new light oil development in Saskatchewan look much better with far less risk than for the tar sands of Alberta. More energy investment money is going to Saskatchewan and the jobs will follow – and not just because of the Alberta royalty changes but because the new oil here is simply easier to get at.
I hate to be a “rah rah” person because it just isn’t my style but I think that RE prices are not going to crash. They likely won’t even fall nearly as much as they have in Alberta. In fact, I dare say they might even be go higher by next year (I’m still not planning to sell even if they do go higher). My non-expert prediction here is a plateau or minor correction for the next five months and then we go 8% higher one year from now in Saskatoon. Regina goes 12% higher.
May 11th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Moving from T-Dot:
Just make sure you are comparing apples to apples. We sold our unit for 20K than our next door neighbour. Exact same location and floorplan. Why the diff? Depends what you are looking for. Laminate and linoleum vs hardwood, porcelain (some heated areas), nicer carpet and crown mouldings, and presented pristinely. The other one expired in the summer and then was on market during peak sales period for 3 weeks, ours gone in 5 days.
I can’t comment on the houses in Erindale as I have not seen them. Is one on a corner on a main drag, the other a court location. What about landscaping, developed basement, size of yard, layout. There could be a variety of reasons why the prices are different.
That being said, if there aren’t any significant differences, it is pretty safe to think the lower priced one will go.
May 11th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
moving
That is just it. As more and more buyers are priced out of the market the less buyers there are. prices have to adjust to fit the people living in any community; including Saskatoon. prices will continue to drop until the average saskatoon family can once again afford to live there. its really common sense.
May 11th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Ron
Your being realistic…. but I think in the short term there will be a 20 – 30K correction which when your looking at the price today is only a 5 – 6%, but what that will allow is the first time buyer who can afford 80k down and 2K a month payments which right now is just not the case. 10 years ago the homes that are priced at 450K where considered starter homes but those starters have forgotten where they came from.
May 11th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
okay, we all get it Saskatchewan is booming. But who is going to move here when nobody can afford a place to live? Our average house price is about 50 to 100 grand more expensive then the average alberta oilfield city (Excluding fortmac). people are not going to relocate their families to a place that is unafordable. Not to mention we have PST, higher property taxes, and pay more for incometax.
May 11th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Anyone remember this one in stonebridge listed for 459, 900, and now on sask houses for 424
May 28 139 Martin Crescent Saskatoon Stonebridge $424,900
May 11th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Let the competitions begin
May 11th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Moving from TO,
There have been 357 price adjustments on the MLS since May 1, and somewhere in the range of 200 cancellations and re-lists. You can bet that “price” is the major topic of conversation between agents and their sellers.
Regardless of what happens in this market, there will always be a certain percentage of homes which are over-priced relative to recent sales and current actives. I completely agree that there are listings out there that don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of selling. Some of them probably aren’t that crazy about the idea of selling (“I’ll sell if someone pays me a ridiculous price), some of the sellers are delusional (“but I’m moving to Toronto and houses are more expensive there) and some of them may have been misinformed by their agent (your house is worth x). Agents have forgotten how it feels to carry a listing that they cannot sell, but that feeling will be coming back to many of them shortly.
You are absolutely right. If I had a house to sell today, I would be looking to have it sold in June. Nobody knows what January might bring but I doubt seriously that prices will be higher at that time. From a seller’s perspective, and given the current volatility, the very best strategy right now is to be priced on the lower end of the value range. Some of those properties still attract a handful of buyers and can even sell above list. The problem with “trying it higher” is that a seller can end up chasing the market down with a series of reductions, always coming up a little short, while values drop in the meantime.
Houses aren’t commodities, but I understand that the same general principles apply. You can’t sell a house for y when something comparable is available for x. Getting some sellers to understand that other homes are comparable, sometimes better, can also be a big challenge for an agent.
May 11th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Hey Norm,
A couple quick questions.
I see a lot of houses with “non-conforming” suites. What exactly does that mean? Is it non-conforming to use as a rental property? Does that mean it is illegal to rent it out? If so, does the city ever check that kind of thing? What would happen if there was a fire or an injury to a tenant or something that could be attributed to the non-conforming suite? Get your ass sued off? Criminal charges?
And is there a public record of how long a house has been on the market? That should be right up there on the mls next to the address and the square footage.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:00 pm
Ben,
“People are not going to relocate their families to a place that is unaffordable.”
I certainly hope you’re right. It would be common-sense for people to *FINALLY* stop moving here due to overpriced housing, but people certainly haven’t been using common-sense in the last couple of years when it comes to moving here and repeatedly taking these ridiculous prices. But yes–there has to be a limit to how much a person is going to take price-gouging, right?
(right?)
I still cannot fathom these prices; even when they finally plateau, they are -still- going to be overpriced. People keep forgetting where we live (as I’ve said upteen times here on this board). Saskatoon, love it or not, is -not- a major centre, and there really isn’t all that much here yet (except for short commute times). So what on earth is everyone paying up the ying-yang for…? It’s a colossal mystery to me.
When Amanda and I moved in to our apartment downtown (4th Avenue North) back in 2004, the rent was too much then ($580 for a 1-bedroom apartment), but we chose this location for various reasons. Amanda’s originally from Oklahoma, and I can remember back in ‘04 how she would look at the occasional house-listing in the paper and laugh in disbelief at how overpriced houses were -back then-, for what you were getting. Properties in Saskatoon are so much smaller than they are in Tulsa, she said, and a heck of a lot more expensive.
(Disclaimer: Tulsa isn’t exactly Los Angeles when it comes to housing prices.)
And that was back when houses were supposedly “undervalued.” Hah! Now, of course, common-sense has taken a very, very long vacation. To Mars.
(I know that Canada is generally a much more expensive place to live, but prices here in town are reaching such ridiculous proportions, someone should be crying out bloody murder! Although, Canadians, as a general rule, kind of just “take” being gouged in a bit of a zombified manner.)
“ugh, tax me, I’m Canadian; blaahhhhhhhh. Brainnnnnnns.”
In my opinion, Saskatoon was “undervalued” for so many years for a very good reason. Weather is kinda crappy here most of the time (24/7 wind, anyone…?); there isn’t all that much here in terms of big-city amenities, etc. Cost of living was lower in Saskatchewan. That was the trade-off. Of course, this isn’t the case now. I’m seriously considering all my options, and that includes leaving here. It’s not that I hate Saskatoon–there are things that I really like about living here. But let’s use some common-sense: it ain’t worth the current prices, folks.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Yes, Robin People in Saskatchewan used to be able to pride themselves as an affordable place to raise your family, have one person stay at home, and afford a nice vacation once a year. We could laugh at the people in the next province with their 300 thousand dollar starter homes, and having to have both parents working just to feed the house. And now 330 thousand dollars buys you a half duplex with no back door, no back yard, and on a busy street. We have surpassed the people in Alberta who make more then we do and now pay less to live.
Two years ago the saskatchewan government put in a huge promotion for 300, 000 dollars advertising in other provinces for people to come home for a quicker commute and a cheaper place to live. Well the only people who have migrated here are the people who once lived here. So it was us saskathewan people who drove up our homes. And it just happened to be that at the same time there was alot of media attention to the road development in our north which would one day boost oil and mineral development. Speculators jumped right on board, and drove up the cost of living for us saskathewan residents.
There is a joke on garth turners website right now about a bidding war going on in saskatoon. One is from Edmonton and the other from Calgary.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Dont know why people keep on bringing up Garth Turner if you follow him again he might just make u broke and penniless for the second time in a row with his crappy advice
May 11th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Ben,
Yeah, I’m pretty miffed at Calvert’s government that they pushed this promotion without any contingency plans (managed rent increases, etc). I don’t think anyone was expecting the spike in prices that we saw, but still…Calvert’s government should have been more on the ball. And now we’ve got the SasSCRATCHewan Party in power, and they don’t give a crap about affordability issues–or people, for that matter.
Speculators certainly are mostly to blame for this craziness. People flocking to Saskatchewan in droves didn’t help, but it was the armchair investors from Alberta who are the true bad-guys in this story…
If any province in Confederation knew better, it was this one. Saskatchewan: home to socialized medicine, the CCF, the NDP, etc. We should have known better. We should have looked at Alberta’s troubles, and B.C.’s cost of living troubles (Vancouver), and had a contingency plan. But alas–in the end, money talks the loudest.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
ben do u have the link to these cartoons?
May 11th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
“jrochest,
So, I have you predicting a drop in the average sale price to around -$25,000.
It will truly be sad if I can’t even give them away”
Never post when tired. Almost as bad as posting when drunk.
I meant, of course, that I expect the bump from 2007 to be smoothed out: that prices will lose 100% of that gain, not 100% of their value.
And Norm, if you’re every giving them away free, I’ll take a Rumley loft, please!
May 11th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
You should all read Crikey’s comment on saskhouses https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=18699389&postID=4747805611306953850&page=1
about how houses are over priced and wages stagnant after inflation is taken into account.
Well layed out, point form.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Dougy,
the smart move now is to underbid 10% on asking price. Even if you miss out, there are lots of other options
pretty arbitrary number, why not underbid by 40%, or better yet wait for the house to be given away for free.
Just like owners asking too much, i think buyers will go to far and offer too little.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
I think a 10% underbid is reasonable. We’re hearing prices might drop that much, and that way it they do, you’re even. Doesn’t hurt to bid under and use that as a starting point.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Norm,
I want to commend you for providing RE market info on Saskatoon and providing a forum for discussion. I live in Victoria but was raised in Saskatoon and still have family there.
In my opinion the real estate market anywhere is strongly driven by how the market is perceived by the local population. As long as they view it is hot they will bid the prices to astronomical levels. Here in Victoria the median price is 540K and the Average is 600K. However the family income is not much different than Saskatoon. One might wonder how families here are able to buy.
They do it by stretching themselves to the max driven by fear of being left behind. They use gifts from Mom & Dad, raiding their RRSPs, 40 year mortgages, variable rate loans, doubling up with family or friends and putting a suite in the basement. If you think Saskatoon is unbelievable then Victoria and Vancouver Island is truly ridiculous. Many can’t afford to do anything but go to and from work every day and are mortgage poor.
However, like Saskatoon the buyers have capitulated and are now on the sidelines. Listings are up to record levels and buyers are staying away in droves. Prices went down in May and we all know what happens when supply outstrips demand.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Dougy,
Those are all good points Crikey makes. Why doesn’t she come on here and help the cause!?
Jim,
10% is a VERY reasonable underbid, IMO a little too charitable. We’ll see where the summer takes us, but I don’t doubt in a month or two we’ll see the average underbid more around the $15K mark.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Cause??? What cause are you talking about?
May 11th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I wonder if how much you underbid should have any relationship to how realistic the price is to begin with, or should we just assume that 10% off list equals a good deal in every case?
May 11th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Now Norm, that’s just outrageous! No way, every house is overpriced and should be drastically underbid or else. I’m certainly no advocate for the level of inflation that’s gone on over the past year and the ignorance of city council over affordable housing, but it’s pretty discouraging that those who can’t afford the big house on the east-side today suddenly feel that there’s a “cause” to be fought?…
I’ve got a cause, how about the guy that literally cannot afford a roof over his children’s head and food in their mouths or the grandparents that got kicked out of their apartment after 30 years into a massively manipulated rental market due to ignorance… fixing your ability to afford the house you want doesn’t put either party under a roof. Two different causes. Get over yourselves and get your priorities straight.
J.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Maybe 10% off what a reasonable price would be. If it’s one of those condos on saskhouses, where the mls equivalent is already available for 10 or even 15% less, than 10% off a similar priced unit. Unless it’s unique/one of a kind and very well priced, doesn’t hurt to low ball it and go from there. Obviously if a place is priced at $280,000 when similar condos are as low as $240,000, then 10% off list is too charitable.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Maybe Johny’s granparents or poor father would benefit from more appropriate housing prices. Worst thing that could happen to that poor family, scraping together savings for a down payment, buying a house at full list price and then having it drop 10% over then next year! Or being forced to live in an alphabet house in Canada’s most violent city!
May 11th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Johny,
Lol! Sorry, I thought my sarcasm was obvious, but apparently not.
Advocating a standard percentage underbid is as nonsensical as the ridiculous overbidding that drove prices up. 10% under will be appropriate in certain circumstances, and 20% will be in others. An above asking price offer can still be appropriate if the seller has done their homework and priced fairly for today’s market.
That’s what I was getting at in my comment. As long as 300-400 houses are selling each month, sellers will be able to make a fair deal.
Doug,
…and if you found the same unit at $230,000, you’d probably feel pretty good about paying it if that’s what you were looking for.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Oh no Norm, I caught it… maybe you missed mine
May 11th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Johny,
I suppose I did but I hope that the majority of your message was intended to be taken literally. As usual, you do a fine job of reminding us that our problems are small in comparison to some.
By the way, I am always pleased to see your name attached to a comment and I’m glad to know that you’re still hanging around a bit.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Wesco
it wasn’t a cartoon. just a joke that someone had written on the response to his last blob. there was a fair bit of comments from readers on whether investing in Saskatchewan is a good idea.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Roger, I live in Victoria, too, but am often in Saskatoon for business (and to check up on my property). I wish a realtor in Victoria could set up a website like Norm does!
I recall decades ago that no one could believe how expensive Victoria was and yet prices still went higher from insane to ridiculous. And yes, I agree with you that Victoria salaries are about the same as in Saskatoon yet prices are on another planet in Victoria. It is all an issue of perception – in fact, to Vancouverites, Victoria is cheap!
I was recently at a party in Vancouver where there was a mixture of 30 somethings and 60 somethings. The majority of the 30 somethings were highly paid and well educated engineers, lawyers, doctors etc. making six figure salaries. All were griping about the terrible cost of housing and so many were lamenting they would be permanent renters. Most of the 60 year olds present, on the other hand, never made close to what the young professionals did. However, most of the 60 year old were sitting pretty after winning the lottery years ago by the simply act of purchasing a modest bungalow in a reasonably nice but not extravagant area. To illustrate how bad prices are in BC, I can tell you that my GP doctor friends are moving out of Vancouver to smaller cities because of the high cost of housing!
Imagine having to pay $600,000 for a very average 1950’s home in an average, middle class, Victoria neighbourhood. How about $700,000 for an older home in an East Vancouver working class area? You guys are a long ways away from this dreadful situation.
For Saskatchewan, I think the “solution” will have to be higher salaries similar to what happened in Alberta. I actually think that this is possible and coming down the road in the near future.
I’ll go back again to this oil thing – again, I was just poring over some more financials and I keep having to read the financial statements twice because the numbers seem just to good to believe. Even pricing in at $80 or $90 per barrel oil, the oil companies operating in Saskatchewan are on to something BIG which does not require the huge, huge expenses of the tar sands. For example, tonight I just finished looking at a medium sized energy company that can easily quadruple its already large oil production from its Saskatchewan fields within a much, much shorter interval than any Alberta oilsands project and with far less financial and environmental cost.
It is a reality that capital will favour Saskatchewan over Alberta for new Canadian energy developments as nobody can argue with the favourable mathematics and geology.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Norm,
Of course a 10% underbid isn’t the answer for all situations, if you thought that’s what I meant. However, I think 10% for most properties on the market today is the minimum a person should be underbidding.
It’s just my personal opinion but I don’t believe any real estate on the market right now is priced where it should be. Whereas a more “analytical” way of looking at is (which many have pointed out) an asking price is reasonable if it’s what the market will bear. I think with more buyer control the market won’t be able to bear current prices for much longer.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
#1 Alberta has favorable geology, its oil is more accessible and better quality so less upgrading, Bakken is no where near Saskatoon. At present, Alberta oil and natural gas will take a long time to catch.
#2 Victoria is beautiful. The reason most people save their whole lives and work their arses off in Saskatoon is so that one day they can retire in Victoria. BC has a century of booming. We have 2 years. Problem with our river, you just can’t use it at minus 30!
#3 Seriously, the number of elderly people with hip fractures, the biggest fear of many, in Saskatchewan because they slipped on ice
#4 The number of obese people, couped up all winter
#5 Victoria’s downtown and harbour are beautiful, Saskatoon can’t match that, neither can anywhere west of Halifax, I’d pay a half million for a okay condo to retire in Sydney or Sooke etc…
May 11th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Sounds awesome for company HQ in Calgary or nearby Regina, Estevan
http://www.canada.com/saskatoonstarphoenix/news/local/story.html?id=5f07f6b9-815f-4058-9e25-17fb0c61cd61
May 11th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Heather,
Your “opinion” is only relevant to your own prospective purchase. Likewise, the seller’s “opinion” of the value of their property is equally irrelevant.
The “market” is the collective opinion and motivation of all active participants. Last week, 20% of buyers and sellers agreed that the price on the property they were dealing with was priced at “what the market will bear.” 10% agreed that it was priced below, and 70% agreed that it was priced above to the tune of about $9,000 on average. Those buyers completely rejected the balance of the inventory as “not worth it.”
Moving forward, I will definitely be advising sellers to price their homes properly based on today’s conditions, and if my advice is taken seriously I’ll expect a fairly quick sale, fairly close to list price.
I’d suggest that anything which requires a 10-20% underbid is not even worth looking at. Leave those sellers on the sideline to clean their homes daily and wait for a result that’s never going to happen. As a buyer, you can be thankful that they’re out there, cluttering up the landscape, but they’re not really serious about selling, so why take them seriously?
If you feel that “everything” is 10-20% high, then it’s time to take the sideline yourself and that is every buyer’s option.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Ron,
It’s kind of frustrating after these same 60 somethings have lived the good life while plunging our country into debt that they will further screw over the younger generations by burdening us with the huge health care associated once they enter into their golden years. Even though they carry a huge share of the wealth within the country, you can be damn sure they won’t sell a single asset to cover these huge costs. Rather, I can bet you they would rather just tax us young ones even further and continue riding aboard the gravy train.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
Whoa Jason
Hold on for a second – arent these 60 somethings the same people that have broke their backs to make life better for all us young punks?
I went to school for 8 blooming years – partially supported by myself and a part-time job, partially the 60 something parents helped and partially a student loan that will take mortage time to pay off.
I don’t begrudge my 60 something parents one iota of what is coming their way in their retirement. They put in their time, and they certainly struggled to afford what they did along the way. In fact, they deserve better. I sure as hell don’t want them kicked out of their retirement home when they hit 80.
So, I work my ass off right now to not only support myself, my future kids, but my parents future life.
As I have stated before – we tried to afford Saskatoon, but could not. We left for BC, yes, thats right, we are in BC – not the south, but the north where housing is cheap, and we can afford a life.
No, its not attractive to everyone, but, we have a house, have a life outside of work, and can manage our way to live a good life. We were realistic with the budget, and that is what I percieve to be most 30 somethings biggest problem – speaking from experience with lots of 30 something freinds.
So, it costs money to live – yah, that is no friggen surprise, so make choices that you can afford to live with. The reality is not the Scotiabank commercial “Your Richer than you Think”. It is more likely “You are poorer than you think” in todays society, but that doesnt boom an economy. People in my age group just don’t have enough personal responsibility anymore for spending habits.
That all translates to thinking you can afford a 400 thousand home when you can’t, and vacations every year and new cars and ect ect. on a 70 thous. income because the bank said you could. The bank is not your best freind – they are a company that is trying to make money off of you.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Instead of complaining about house prices which are very affordable in saskatoon, One should be asking there employers for %20 wage increases or threaten to move to another city which will meet your wage expectations.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
I don’t understand how people can afford these prices. I have a well paying job and a low mortgage because I had equity from Calgary and still find it difficult to keep up withthe bills especially the high property taxes. It’s crazy.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Touche Cindy, live within your means. Good advice for everyone. That and invest extra money, don’t waste it on cars, depreciate, or TV’s, at least if you’re going to buy a house you can barely afford, spend your time on landscaping and enjoying your house, not vacations you can’t afford.
Interesting comment on cbc website. If you rent a modest place for $1,000 a month v. well over $2,000 a month for a 25 year mortage on a $300,000 place, you can invest the difference, well over $1000 and assuming a pretty crummy 6.5% return (even my RRSP’s have averaged 8% over the last 10 years) at the end of 25 years, you have over $1.3 million extra, v. maybe your $300,000 house worth $600,000. You also save on maintenance, the average $300,000 place in Saskatoon is from Leave it to Beaver era, or West End, and repairs. So worry free.
Made me think. I might just upgrade and rent a decent townhouse or small bungalow and invest the difference. And then I don’t need to keep coming on here to have Ron tell me why housing should be unaffordable. And if I find a sweet job offer in Alberta, I am a lot more mobile if I’m renting.
from some one who calls herself J flower
“I think people talking dollars and cents should really figure out it they know what they are talking about or not. Rent vs Owning with $2382/month to spend.
A mortgage for $300,000 will cost you $2082 plus $300 property taxes/misc a month. At the end of 25 years you will pay $298,316.08 at 6.5% interest to the bank. If you are lucky your house will double in price in 25 years to $600,000.
So you decide to rent for $1000 a month. The difference is you have $1382 a month to invest. Lets say you get an average 6.5% (medium to low risk investments) over 25 years. At the end you will have $1,340,142.
You do the math! Check out your numbers using online calculators. The dollars and cents will blow you away. The biggest benefit of owning is after 25 years you won’t have any payments but your $300 in property taxes. So it can make your retirement a little easier but with over a million in the bank by renting you won’t have to worry much about that nor do you have to take extra money on your mortgage to do renovations, replace a furnace, landscape, etc. The key is to invest and not spend that extra money you will save by renting. So please think before you speak. Renting is not a bad option if you are good at saving your money for a rainy day.”
May 11th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Doug,
May i say it’s a nice thing to see some other ways to live come out here. There isn’t just one way….to purchase a home to live a good life…i mean society will push one to think so but it’s per individual to come up with the plan that’s best for them. I like the ‘thinktank’ of thoughts that this site offers in all aspects of real estate as well as the other sidelining topics that tend to arise (besides the namecalling mumbojumbo).
May 11th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
May i ask why nobody can afford these prices? Me and my wife earn 12 dollars an hour each full time. We also have 3 kids yet we can buy a house over 230k. Can you tell me why the majority of people cannot afford homes like most of you say? We have a 4k student loan btw and about $500 in credit card debt. So please tell me why nobody can afford a home in Saskatoon cause with our about 45k income per year we can afford over 230k+ on a 40 year mortgage with 5.49% interest rate I am awaiting all the “bear” answers.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Armoth,
I think you answered your own question when you said 40 year mortgage which is busnish for lifetime rental agreement.
Also, have you seen the detached homes for 230 or under lately.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Ahh the renting vs owning argument, all the calculations are based on your rent being constant… and as a renter I know that whenever the land lord gets a chance they will up your rent…
If you are going to be keeping your morgage for 25 years you proberbly don’t want to be getting into the housing market.
There is no reason you cannot pay your house off sooner, then you end up with a lot more money to puut into savings.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Yes a 40 year amortization is scary. However, if you are young and plan to increase your income over your working life you can easily knock that amortization down to a reasonable level. After only 1 year on my first 25-year mortgage I worked with a mortgage broker to get a better deal and knocked 7 years of my amortization. That was 5 years ago, so now I’m looking at clear title in 18 years, or I may up my payments and cut it down again. Interestingly mortgage rates for a five year term are only half a point higher than 2003.
There are also other tricks to pay off your home faster: make biweekly payments, make lumpsum payments every year, etc. A 40-yr amort might get you into the house of your dreams but it does not have to remain a 40-yr millstone. Most people on here are smart young go-getters right? You are expecting your income to go up as you get older, I assume. Anyway the principal res. has great tax advantages as well. There’s the Smith Maneuver to consider. As well, sometimes it’s as not advantageous to pay down the mortgage when you could be investing in other areas… There’s a lot to consider, but some books on it, keep reading…
May 11th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
oops, bad math: I’ll be free and clear in 12 years. I hope to cut it down to under 10 when I refinance next month.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Armoth, just because I’m lazy, I worked out a mortage on $200,000 mortage (well 250k house with 50 down) over a 40 year am. with VR Open, your payments would be $981.30/month, or $11,775.60 a year. And you claim you have 3 kids?! and combined make about $45,000 a year. How about car payments? Gas? Bus payments? Childcare? And $4,000 in student loans – you have an education and only make $12 an hour each?
Anyway, I guess the kids are tax deductions, but still after income tax, property tax, expenses (gas, insurance, car maintenance/bus pass), childcare I have no idea how you survive, unless you’re expecting substantial raises soon, or have relatives looking after child care, or something of the sort.
I’m actually surprised the bank gave 2 people whose combined income is $45,000, who owe money, and who have 3 kids a mortage. Did your parents co-sign? Not an option for all of us.
If you are going to make more money, that’s not fair to some one who peaks at $45.
And please go to career fair next year, to tell the kids what degree to avoid. I know receptionists and guys at Superstore who make more than $12 an hour.
If you’ve got none of the above family/big iminent raise, I feel for you, that’s 40 years of living hand to mouth.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Doug,
Ahh I see instead of accepting the truth of the matter that people can afford the homes you say are unaffordable. You knock me for only getting paid $12 dollars a hour if you want to know more facts here you go since your so old and wise ill give you some more. Im 24 years of age I own a 2006 Grand Prix fully paid off and with a 3 year warranty. I have a criminal degree diploma which I went through schooling with a scholarship. My kids are 15,10,9 and I buy 1 bus pass per month for the older 1 since it is more than 2km to school. Our free money per month is $223 dollars per month if we both make only $600 per paycheck. Now do the math einsteins and tell me how crappy I am. Oh and 1 more thing our family allowance is $315. So tell me “doug” oh wise and powerful one how bad I am off. The main reason alot of people cant buy houses are cause they are foolish and cant add 1+1 a decent financial savvy human being will have no trouble in these economic conditions unless its by their own design of stupidity and waste and thats what I leave you with “Doug” eat it with the silver spoon I cant afford!
p.s.
pwned
May 11th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Armoth,
You’re 24 and you have a 15 year old? I’ve heard of young pregnancy but wow!!!. I don’t think I even produced sperm at 9 years old.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Children from the previous marriage of my wife(32) but they are my own =)
May 11th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
armoth, you will see smaller family allowance as each one of those kids hit 18. then its gone. banks do not use this as a source of income when figuring loans. but chances are you will be looking after those kids well into their 30’s, because they still will be living at home, unable to find a decent place to live in saskatoon. a lot of out of province students are packing it and moving back to their home provinces because of no where to live affordable. so its easy to spew out your 24 year old wisdom, but look further down the road.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Armoth,
Congrats on how you can afford it. I’m not sure how but good for you. I went into the bank, CIBC where they basiclaly told me that ‘the most’ i could afford would be $125,000 in the 40 year mortgage bracket. I currently make $43,000 a year. My only payment is a monthly car payment of $338. I was told that my $125g’s mortgage would be somewhere around $1100 a month plus property taxes plus utilities and so on.
Can i have one of your magic money trees?
May 11th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Jesse
Good God! What was the interest rate?
May 11th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
At that time (maybe 5 months ago) something like 7%. If I recall, the 25 year was going to be something like $1450 a month. She asked me if i had money from parents or if my parents could help me out, or if i had a girlfriend to help buy…well i do but i’m not getting HER to pay just so I can get a house lol. I know shortly after the interest rates went down to something like 5ish percent…Still not a viable option if u ask me. Insane. And by no means was it a shot at the guy above, just amazed he got the mortgage.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Armoth, have you realised that 230k+ on a 40 year mortgage with 5.49% interest rate will work out to paying $334,020.96 in INTEREST on your hem over the term of the mortgage, for a grand total of $564,020 over 40 years for your $230K house.
This is assuming that you make payments monthly, and that your interest rate is fixed.
This is even scarier:
Interest rates increases. When rates go from 5% to 7%, that’s a 40% increase in the amount of interest a buyer has to pay.
For example, if interest rates are 5%, then $1000 per month ($12,000 per year) pays for an interest-only loan of $240,000. If interest rates rise to 7%, then that same $1000 per month pays for an interest-only loan of only $171,428. And over the 40 years, that $230k house is going to cost you upwards of $700K.
Still affordable? 40-year mortgages are financial time-bombs.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I would love to see a complete expense list from Armoth, not to be mean spirited, but more to just figure out what the heck i’m doing wrong. I’m very happy to learn if i am doing things wrong…I mean food isn’t cheap, gas certainly isn’t cheap, utilities, property taxes, phone, any cable/internet, clothing, children’s clothing, things like bus passes, common household items, cost of things like a lawnmower, water bills for watering lawn, i mean there are a thousand different costs that all add up.
I know that you’ev partially explained some of the expenses but i must be missing something here beucase i just can’t see how it’s possible.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
If paying down a 40 year mortgage is a time bomb what is rent then instant suicide every month? And for some reason no bears are posting their responses to my average joe earning’s. Whats wrong “bears” cat got your tongue? As for the comment how i got it and what my magic money tree I will tell u. I applied for no money down mortgage from Wells Fargo at 8.5% closing costs was 2k. 3 months after I closed with Wells Fargo I refinanced with RBC for 5.49% including some extra money to put in new deep soaker bathtub, new furnace, new water heater, and a/c. There was a penalty for switching after such a short time $2500 to be exact but it got my foot in the door to buy the house Im going to live in for 10 years. For the arguement of the family allowance going down when the kid hits 18 tell me do you even have kids? My dang kids eat so much just with the food bill going down will make up for the family allowance going away all together. Not to mention the clothes, medicine, school programs and etc. The facts are my mortgage is 230,850.00 and my payments are 1187.96. There you go all you math wizzes work it out and tell me how im not making it which i am and im doing well im a below average joe which can afford a 230k mortgage on 45k give or take 2k. And Jesse G your priorities were to get a fancy car for $338 per month instead of buy a house thats why you have a car and cant get a house I wouldve suggested getting the house first and buy a bus pass for $45 =op
May 11th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Also, let’s not forget that credit rating plays a huge part in getting things like mortgages, so if you have a bad or even lightly questionable credit rating that may explain why you aren’t able to get a mortgage. So if you can’t pay your bills on time then you shouldn’t have a house anyways. sorry..
May 11th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
So jesse why are you going directly to a bank? Why would you not just use a mortgage broker who costs you nothing, you don’t miss work, therefore lose money from your paycheck to pay your bills, the mortgage broker does all the leg work. They know the ins and outs and will work to get you the best deal at any bank. If you were so wise you would have thought of that before wasting your time going to ONE bank, you do know they all do a mortgages right?
May 11th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Armoth,
I remember YOU now! Right you did the juggling with Wells Fargo. *cleans cobwebs off brain*
Personally with me, and my income, I couldn’t justify spending more than a certain amount for what a person gets in this city. I did only go to the one bank, and multiple people told me about broker compaies but i know the payments would’nt be low enough for me to be comfortable tying myself into a shack here…(i’m talking about the 125 grand ones like the bachelor 375 sq ft condo’s down on 25th street)..I mean my personal situation is i may move out of here when my girlfriend graduates from college so to just get into it for a couple years isnt’ worth it either.
And I’m not ’so wise’, I really like i stated earlier in earlier posts, i am all for findign out ways to do things. I’m not one of the people attacking you, i’m just wondering what i’m doing wrong more than that. but again my situation is different too in that i want to move so it’s not really worth it to get into a house just yet. i DID only go to one bank yes, it was just to get a taste of a ’somewhat’ typical bank loan.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Armoth,
Conrats on your purchase. You obviously made it a priority to purchase a home and you made it happen.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Okay Jesse and Armoth,
Time to tone it down and act like adults.
The fact of the matter is, Armoth, that you are paying a HUGE premium to get lower monthly payments (taking a 40 year mortgage instead of 25 to get a reduction in monthly payments of about $200). OF COURSE the banks are willing to lend you more money than you can afford- they are making more than the cost of your property in INTEREST off of you for the nxt 40 years.
As to the crack about renting– It’s still much cheaper to rent than to own the same thing. Yearly rents are less than 3% of purchase price. Mortgage rates are approximately 6%, so it costs twice as much to borrow money to buy a house than it does to rent the same kind of house. Worse, total owner costs including taxes, maintenance, and insurance are about 9%, which is three times the cost of renting. Think about it— YOU ARE DOING NOTHING BUT “RENTING” from the bank for the next 40 years, and paying $334,020.96 in INTEREST for the priviledge. Sure hope the cost of housing doesn’t depreciate (it already has) or the interest rates dont rise (they will), because “your” house is already worth less than what you “paid” for it.
The fact of the matter is, a comfortable and “safe” mortgage is a maximum of 3-3.5 times the buyer’s yearly income, but most mortgages are well beyond that. Keeping in mind your stated 45k/yr salary, you’ve REALLY overleveraged yourself.
Good luck to you. You’re going to need it.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Armoth, you called out all the bears, but a lot of people pointed out how much you’re paying, all I said was that $12 an hour sucks with education, which it does. And yeah, with about $200 a month to spend on clothing, dental, etc. you win. I just don’t think most people would be comfortable spending living on that little. And no silver spoon. Most just found better jobs. I made $12 an hour putting myself through university pre boom. And family allowance $315? A month? Good old government, that’s almost another $4,000 a year you forgot to include in your $45,000.
I think you prove the point that housing is too expensive, when making $49,000 a year and almost no money left over.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Jesse,
Imagine if you were married u make a good income and with wife’s income as well ude be near the average of Sask. Me and my wife are way below average as you can see so only 1 way to go up =p. I would pay off the car as soon as possible to free up cash and save for down payment and your net worth will go up and be easier to lend for mortgages. I would also be careful of the banks.
RBC tried to offer me 7% for a 5 year which is bullcrap I just said check out First National they will give me 5.49% match it or i go to them and viola! So i dont understand why the “bears” say its getting hard to afford houses it is if your single but not if ur married and making more than 12 bucks an hour with no spending habits =p Here is a referral Marina Federoff is a nice broker and she looks out for you she will even find a lower rate if its not in her best interest very trustworthy and she is with The Mortgage Group. well im ranting again so i stop talking now xD
May 11th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
I plan to pay off the car as soon as possible with my 2nd job earnings and then hopefully get out of that. I WANT MY LIFE BACK!
Much appreciated for the contact.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Crikey,
Really, come on. The guy bought a house and is enjoying it. Your opinions are what you believe to be true for you. That doesn’t mean that your views are right for everyone else.
If you want to get in to renting then fine. Armoth obviously bought this property a minimum of 5 months ago if he’s already had 3 months go by and has re-financed. That would put his purchase around January of this year (possibly sooner). So yes he could have rented because “The market couldn’t possibly go up anymore than it has”. Instead he now has a property that he enjoys with around $30k in equity.
Moreover a 40 year mortgage doesn’t mean that it takes you 40 years to pay off your house. It’s only an ammortization period and depending on how long his mortgage term is he can change that upon renewal.
If 3-3.5 times annual income is what qualifies for you, then where do you suggest a family making 45k a year buy a house?
May 11th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Northstar,
I’m just taking market fundementals. If you believe that Armoth has more financial sense than someone with 2 degrees in economics, GREAT. If Armoth is happy losing a ton of money on a depreciating asset- fantastic. It doesn’t mean other peole should do it.
As to your question- if he can’t find anything at or lower than $157,500- I suggest he doesn’t buy a house.
May 11th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Northstar,
There is some decent houses in the Confed Park area zone 5 it will fall in I believe. Whelan, Shea, Carter, and pretty much anything in this area is mostly families now. Very safe around here almost all renters are gone which i know u guys hate cause its partly to blame for the housing boom, but in my area the renters were the trouble makers now that they are gone there is only the occasional firecracker once a week. During the day kids litter the street playing and such its very beautiful reminds me of my childhood =’) And to be honest I got into housing October 2006 bought the house for 134k and the refinancing is 230k for some other equity interests. I just wish me and my wife made the average income in Sask then i would have 2k extra to play around with =p.
Crikey,
I would have to say your are disillusioned that I would need luck. I am paying off my Mortgage with $200 dollars to spare minimum per month at only $12 bucks an hour. I think you need some financial counseling so you can get your spending habits straight and what is good debt vs bad debt you are the one that needs luck my friend. Fact of the matter stands I like my job and am enjoying life I cant say the same for alot of people on here telling by their comments and bitterness. And if you want Crikey I could take the money I have saved and buy a condo and you can rent it from me for 40 years I wont mind that heck ill even make you sign a lease. Btw can you find a 5 bedroom house for me with 3 bathrooms for $1100 per month or are we on the same planet? And in a good area no alphabet soup pls!
May 11th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Crikey,
After seeing your post can you please let me know if you write a book or give advice for a fee so i can totally avoid you? You sound like the next Garth Turner!
May 11th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Yeah, you go ahead and enjoy paying over $700K on that $230K house.
Good boy.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Armoth,
Quick question, are you contributing to RRSP plans for both you and your wife, Resps for each of your children, and do you and your wife each have life insurance?
If the answer is no to all of the above, then I think your story may be plausible. However, these are things I value.
Also, is there more to the story? For example, did you receive inheritance, win a lottery, money from insurance claim, or anything else?(you mentioned child from other, is there child support)
May 11th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Questions for Armoth,
The refinancing gave us alot of money of which i decided to do several things. Reno’d the house i just bought making it a dream to live in. Started a direct investment account investing in a low MER index fund of the tsx 60. And my insurance is through primerica which is 10 year term insurance after 20 years i wont need insurance cause my net worth alone will be enough for my kids. And for the child support i wish the fricken deadbeat would contribute something but he doesnt even talk to the kids. As for my childhood I grew up in Saskhousing with my single parent mom sometimes we could not eat for the day but it did teach me the value of the dollar. As for the rest of my family my uncle and aunt are millionaires but i didnt see a dime of it cause im not their offspring and every1 else including my father I dont talk too. So moral of the story is I make 12 dollars an hour with no rich dad or rich mom or a silver spoon in my mouth and i could afford a decent home in a nice neighbourhood even tho Crikey doesnt want you to think so =) Children will have to earn their own way in life like I did I will help them out if they get into serious trouble but im not making no spoiled rich kids . And when i was a kid i used to take carts back for people at Superstore so i could afford a lunch for school. My top day was $37 dollars at Christmas =)
May 11th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Crikey,
I have a question for you…why do you think loading up on student loans and getting 2 degree’s in economics makes you smarter than me. The best factor for investments is time and you started your life with massive amounts of debt. Only thing I could say is if you got scholarships or funding of some sort to alleviate your student debt. If not I wish you the best of luck finding a job that can help you deal with your needs. As for the market drop if it does happen I wont care because I plan to stay in this house for 5-10 years and when it does happen as long as it dont drop 70k I will still be free and clear along with my net worth. This is the classic high net worth or high paying job through education debate I just hope we both win =)
May 11th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Well Armoth,
I’ll take the high paying job with an education any day of the week, hands down the best way to go.
I may start out behind but I’ll finish way ahead.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Why is everyone concerned about Armoth’s fictional account of his life. It’s inconsistent and obviously made up to ceate the response he’s been getting . Get a life.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Cut the meat,
Can you show me where my life is inconsistent then come on dont be afraid show me =)
p.s.
Where are all the bears? I dont hear their whining anymore =(
May 11th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Armoth,
Luckily, being fairly intelligent, I was able get many scholarships, so my student loan debt is largely paid off. Also, as a result of the benefits of this higher education of myself and my spouse, we pull in over $130K/yr, and will be doing so for the rest of our lives.
Not to gloat, but who’s going to be farther ahead in retirement? Work it out.
And please, don’t forget to enjoy that REALLY EXPENSIVE house of yours, that’s really “worth” very little.
Best of luck to ya.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
An interesting read for some. It doesnt matter which way you choose as long as you save consistently and invest in a good vehicle ie real estate and index funds anybody will come out ahead.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Armoth,
I am a little confused. You say you bought October 2006 for 134k. Earlier in the post you said that after closing you refinanced 3 months later. Then when you go back to the later post you state that your refinance was for 220k. How could you possibly buy a house in 2006 for 137k and refinance it 3 months later for 220k?
Wesco,
I’m not convinced on a university education either. Back in the 70’s an education got you a great paying job. The cost to go to university wasn’t nearly how much it is now. I could see the benefit back then. Now university has been completely flooded by the masses and to me means very little in these times. How many university graduates are working as servers because they make more money doing that than what they studied to do. In fact, I would argue that post secondary education is one of the worst financial decisions a young person can make. The most ridiculous part is that a person can learn the exact same stuff for free at the library. Of course the masses just do what their told to do like good little robots.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
North Star , I did the math for you and it all works out because it’s all made up while Armoth is sitting in front of his computer at his supposedly $12 / hour job where they let him go online all day .
May 11th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Northstar,
Do you want me to show my paycheck to show you what a university degree got me? Lets see, i clear $4200 every 2 weeks and I’m putting away $600 every 2 weeks into RRSPS and stocks through automatic payroll deductions. I might have huge student loans, only got small scholarships, however with the money I’m making my 60K worth of student loans is going to be paid off in less than 3 years after i am done university. Also my bonus this year was 35K, 23K net, so you can’t argue with me that an education doesn’t pay nowadays. (P.S – I’ve also been to Brazil for 3 weeks, South Carolina Golfing for 12 days and to Las Vegas (last weekend) since December)
May 11th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Crikey,
Good to see you on here! It’s proven that renters do come out ahead with savvy investing rather than buying their home. There are some disadvantages to being a renter, but financially it’s not unwise.
If my husband and I were making a combined income of $45K (with or without kids) I sure wouldn’t be buying a new vehicle… actually I’ve never bought a new vehicle and don’t plan to. The insurance is too expensive and the vehicle loses a lot of it’s value quickly thereafter. I find it concerning that many people nowadays just don’t understand the concept of “frugality”.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
And yeah I am bragging, education is the key to a great lifestyle
May 11th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Ahh, Heather, it’s “interesting” to be here. I thought I’d just take a peek, but the level of idiocy about basic mathamatics and finance on this bog is alarming.
Not that I’m pointing the finger at Armoth…I’m beginning to like Armoth in a sadistic way. I can’t tell if he has a chemical imbalance, secretly understands that he’s going to get slaughtered by “investing” in an overleveraged depreciating asset (and is trying WAY too hard to overcompensate), or logs in from an institution, but think I’m beginning to like him.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Wesco,
I don’t really believe university is the best thing. In fact a big part of university education is just a bunch of crap ( electives). If you go in for engineering ( you are right)nurses etc. those are the ways to go. But there are far too many people that money and time is wasted in the arts and science degrees. Going to Kelsey and getting a trade is far better in that case.
I agree that education is the key to a great lifestyle only if you like the learning and you can apply it.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
I’m with Northstar, here: the original price that Armoth paid made financial sense. He bought a 134,000 house on a 45,000 household income. That’s a sensible purchase; the house cost less than 3 times household income, the mortgage/taxes/insurance and expenses (heat, water, hydro) would be more than comparable rent, but not much more. And it’s hard to find a decent rental when you’ve got kids.
All this is fine, until you get to the ‘and then I refinanced for 230,000 three months later’ bit. Where did the extra 100,000 in debt come from? And why do this to yourselves?
May 11th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
I already explained what I did with it in a previous post which was do house renos like put in new ac, furnace, water heater, replaced old tub with deep soaker tub replaced the sticky tile crap with actual tile and new vanities in the washrooms. I also installed stainless steel appliances in the kitchen. If you want to know the details of what I did i can always tell you who I did it with and where I work but im kinda scared of some of the people on here they might burn me for heresy and Crikey might pick up his degree’s and throw them at me =’( And about the degree debate i can russel up a few university students for u with alot of degree’s or some techies from comp college both of which work with me. No dream jobs all the time =’(
p.s.
Hey Norm if you want you can confirm my story with Nadine Gurski of remax she is the one who sold us our lovely house on Whelan. Anything is possible but some people just dont choose to believe it.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
These posts are hilarious! Armoth you are about the only person on the planet that thinks a 40 year mortgage is a solid investment. Have you actually calculated how much of the principal you are paying down in the first ten years of your rental agreement, or “mortage”?
As for that whopping two hundred dollars you have at the end up each pay cheque. Well lets just say that one of your children don’t get sick or that your wife can no longer work for some reason.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
But the renovations took you from a stable financial situation — where your payments were easily handled on your present income — to one where you’re stretched pretty thin.
That’s the problem I have with the picture.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
So let me get this straight so I understand correctly. Many people post that with the current house prices they could not afford it with an average 72k Sask income. I present my story of my 45k family buying a house refinancing for 230k and i get knocked for it. Now you see the irony in this blog.
Ben,
A smart person like me has an emergency fund for situations like that and im suprised most of you math fiends did not pick up on the $600 dollars per check for me and my wife. The $600 is based on my biweekly paycheck of when i first started at my job at $10 dollars an hour so if you do the math tell me what you come up with. Hopefully with all those degrees you guys have maybe you can phone each other and work out a plan of how to calculate it. =)
May 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Here I did you guys a favor and saved you a couple of hours of work calculating this. $12.25 per hour full time biweekly is $980 gross Ill leave the rest 2 u fat cats. And incase your wondering reason ill always keep it at $600 is I dont want to live above my means Ill always assume Ill only make $600 per paycheck and the rest will either go into savings or investment account. If you think I am hard up for cash tho i do take donations just mssg me and ill take your money ill probably use it better than Crikey can =)
May 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Owning your own buisiness is far better than trades or university education. Country was built on sole proprietership. Even a a specialist neurologist making 500,000 too 1,000,000 with bonuses and perks pales in comparison to to to owning your own construction company or other similar enterprises, because your still working for somebody else no matter how valubable your proffesion is.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Hey Armoth, all the credit to you for … well having good credit. Still amazed you’re willing to pull it off with $200 left, you omitting stuff earlier or not, over but your call. Touche though to those who point out the disability thing for either one of you. Good to see the government is helping out too, with that $4k in family allowance. But I think it’s reasonable for a lot of people, who make more than you, not to be comfortable living like that for 40 years. If you addressed this in another post, I missed it, but you have sooo many of them. I thought I was bad for that!
And Ryan, I’ll take your word on what a “specialist neurologist” gets paid (I thought they were all specialists!) but they are private business owners, sort of. It’s a monopsomy. The government is the sole buyer of services. Physicians bill the government per service, no perks, no benefits. A few salaried physicians are the exception, but still bill, with billings going to employer, although they usually make less.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
To be honest I went off on a good rant there and im usually very quiet on this blog. But the only thing I want the bears to take from this is the average Joe can still make with a 230k mortgage even tho it boggles their mind and im supposedly heading for financial ruin =p
p.s.
now ill be quiet again for another 3-4 months xD
May 11th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
I wouldn’t say financial ruin, the same way I’m not surprised you got a loan for 230,000. But you’re making some pretty big sacrifices to own a place and it is risky, no denying that! You can’t expect most people to consider that being able to afford it for themselves.
If I were you, I’d take out some disability and get in the construction industry for a couple years. Make way better money as a grunt. Labour shortage and all your old job should be around when you come back. I really think you over estimate how well off the majority are on this blog, except for Norm. Everyone else probably clears 12 an hour, but 50,000 isn’t great either. By the time I’m at 3 kids, wouldn’t expect to have both me/wife working FT. I’ve gotta say, it’s almost tempting to do some after hours construction work right now for some extra money.
It is definitely an enviable time to be a high school student or university student who can live at home, as part time jobs in construction would let them save for school like the rest of us could only dream of.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Wait! I just remembered, you said you have a 2006 Pontiac didn’t you?! Ouch. You lose credibility there. All cars depriciate, but GM/Pontiac more than all, okay Oldsmobile was around in 2006 still, still same s**t different pile. And wait till that thing starts needing repairing in a couple years out of warranty, just as your oldest needs help with college.
Best decision I ever made, bought a Honda.
Also, reminds me, wife with 3 kids? Did you touch on child support? What she got from divorce? Not to be too personal, but if she walked in with a couple hundred g’s and the kids all get child support, then whole other ball game. You may have covered, but again, it’s just easier to ask again, so much to read.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Wesco,
I’d argue that your success isn’t because of your university education but rather your drive to be successful. I’ll bet that for every one success story there are 3 other stories about serving at Earls to pay off their student loans. Not to mention all that money paid to the university on education that you could have learned for free at the library.
If you want to brag I won’t stop you as I enjoy a good brag on occasion myself. Haven’t been to Brasil yet but I love Negril in Jamaica.
Ryan,
I couldn’t agree with you more. I couldn’t imagine working for someone else for many reasons. One of them is for tax purposes. Make 100k and give 38% to the government or make $100k and give almost nothing to the government. I’ll take option B.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Hey Jim,
Ya i talked about the child support and the previous father is a useless 5th tit and doesnt do nothing let alone pay something. And about the import vs domestic to be honest now after reading some articles I should’ve bought an import =(
May 11th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Actually Northstar everyone of my friends I graduated with (UofS) are very successful. It may have to do with the times we’re in, however I don’t know one person that I went to school with that didn’t get a fairly decent engineering job.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Hey Wesco, just wondering, how many of your friends from the U of S went to Alberta for jobs? How much more does an engineer make in Alberta, rough average, than in Saskatchewan?
And yeah, in general, engineering degree probably better idea than a liberal arts degree if you want a job.
Also, why more kids should be encouraged to go to SIAST out of high school, a lot of those jobs pay well, often better than some useless degrees, and they have an exceptional post graduation employment rate, even before the supposed “boom”.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
Beware of the SIAST as well…see this is the thing with siast. IF you want to learn a trade, or a skill, you learn exactly what you want and most of the time you end up doing exactly what you want and there are plenty of jobs for techs’…the problem is, is in the term ‘tech’. It’s tossed around as an excuse of why they can pay you less, and you get put under someone (with a degree)’s foot and reminded every 5 seconds.
You WILL do what you want and have the skills..but if you want to make the real bucks…the degree is what you want to shoot for…but you’re right liberal arts isn’t exactly going to get you a stellar job here, neither is geography or archaeology.
Trust me as a tech, where you are basically the people that do majority of the work, you aren’t able to go as high as with a degree.
My own opinion and experience. Though as it’s been said before, if you can make it so that you own and run your own business, it’s a difference too.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Just to add…the exceptional graduation employment rate is due to most of the students looking for thier own jobs…the work placement offices basically post job postings that anyone could find anywhere if they looked, and then take the credit for placing the students IF you find a job, and if you don’t well it’s beucase the student didn’t look hard enough…and believe me, there are still some places out there offering drafting positions for 9 bucks an hour….so not all the positions are ‘high’ paying for trades either.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I did read in the Star Phoenix this week that nurses are getting a 37% wage increase over the next 3 years, is that not increased wages?
I also heard that the Bakken Formation is 5 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL, the largest find on the planet, and its not hard to get out of the ground.
I also heard that Oilsands Quest is planning on full production within two years up north by Fort McMurray on the Saskatchewan side. Something like 1/8th of the production of Fort McMurray.
The whole world is worried that we are going be in big trouble if we don’t do something about global warming. Electricity generated by burning coal accounts for 28% of the worlds’ greenhouse gases. Why do people want to keep using this method of electricity generation? They don’t! France’s electrical generation facilities have been over 80% produced by uranium fueled nuclear reactors for the last 30 years. Have you heard about anyone dying from radiation poisining? They actually have most of their facilities right amongst all their grape growing fields for the wine that we all enjoy! It’s really too bad that there are a few people who make a habit of trying to scare the rest of the world into not using uranium. It doesn’t produce any greenhouse gases, zero, period! There were two very well publicized incidents that occurred in the world. They both happened well over 20 years ago. Do you remember what Russian cars were like 20-30 years ago? I do, a friend of mine bought one, it was in the repair shop monthly, then it died the day she made her last payment. Come on everybody, we have to get behind uranium and it’s electrical production capabilities here in Sask. We could stop greenhouse gas production! We could sell electricity to Alberta, Manitoba, B.C., the U.S., we could reverse the pollution problem. We have the most uranium on the planet, right here in Sask! If this ever takes off, Saskatchewan could easily become the most prosperous center of the country. Along with this would be another good reason for house prices to increase even more. More high paying jobs, more people moving here.
If people think there is nothing to see or do here, they are crazy. We have some of the most beautiful lakes and rivers in the country. Just drive up north past Prince Albert or the south western corner, or in the south. People come here all the time from Alberta because they don’t have what we do.
What about potash? We also have the most in the world! The price keeps going up, because basically, we feed the world.
There’s no shortage of reasons to be here, to own a home, to have a rental property. Don’t wait til it’s too late. I lived in Vancouver 25 years ago and I thought it was crazy prices, but if I would have hunkered down and bought a place there then, I would have had it paid off right about now. I still remember the one place I looked at. The price was $150,000, that same place right now is selling for over a million. Hindsight is not pretty.
Anyways, don’t let all these doom and gloomers scare you out of buying a house. Did you read the TD report? Saskatchewan is going to lead the country for the next 3-5 years in GDP growth by over double the average. Does this not tell you anything? Goodluck!
May 11th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
No one denies that there is growth in the province for oil potash and uranium. If you are however in careers that have nothing to do with those things, basically it means nothing.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
William,
Yeah and wasn’t Sask supposed to lead the nation in GDP growth this year???? And what happened? Alberta lead again. And how is oil sands quest going to go into production 2 years from now? Just to build a small SAGD facility and upgrader takes more than 2 years and thats with the construction workers to build it. They don’t have the workers to build it here and no construction worker is going to go work here for less wages and be in generally the same area, and when the same area will not have the standard of living that Fort McMurray provides. Also you speak of beautiful lakes in northern Sask, what’s going to happen to these lakes if they start oil production in the north? They will be ruined, personally I don’t want any oil production in northern Sask, it should be left the way it is so that our children, their children and their children will be able to enjoy and appreciate it the way we do!!!
I don’t deny that Saskatchewan has all the potential in world, however the same potential has been here for a hundred years.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
William –
You might want to ratchet down the RPM on that spin
May 11th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
William,
Do you own Cameco, UR energy, Hawthorn, Uranium one, First Uranium, or something else in the industry? That was quite the pump if I have ever heard one!
May 11th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
I hardly think 6000 people moving here is something to brag about. Basically we have regained the saskatchewan people we lost. And this is the first year in 12 years that Saskathewan ained people rather than lost.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
I enjoy that if you dig a bit, Regina’s population was actually lower in 2006 than it was in 1996!
We can all bash Red Deer all we want, but in the last decade it went from 50,000 ish to 80,000 ish people (ie about 3,000 a year moved to one small city) and some how its construction industry kept up/its house prices are lower than Saskatoon.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
One problem with Will’s pro uranium argument, Saskatchewan also makes a lot of money off coal. Hudson Bay and its big new coal deposit are pooched if coal goes down, as are other provincial coal areas.
And Hudson Bay just lost its mill. It really needs coal. Other wise, we’ve got another dead small saskatchewan town.
Not saying uranium isn’t a good deal, or good for Cameco, just replacing coal will have detrimental affects on other Saskatchewan businesses and people. Just redistributing the wealth a bit.
And a lot of the public is still against nuclear power, like flouride in their water, doesn’t matter how much sense it makes, they’ll always be willing to spend more for wind or a lot of hydro projects.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Some more comments for Will.
Bakken = huge, near USA border, probably more in states, but either way NO WHERE near Saskatoon, Regina likely to be home to what doesn’t go back to corporate in Calgary
And yes, NURSES are getting a huge pay raise, doesn’t change that the average everyone else makes less than Alberta, BC and Manitoba. Actually, makes it worse, as the minute a commodity or two dip, or we get early frost/drought, our taxes have to fund these suddenly expensive nurses (I think it was 34.9% more personally). And other health unions, 3 currently about to enter bargaining, are going to call for similar raises. Won’t get quite that much, but all will get big raises. So if you got 3% and still make $10,000 less than Alberta, nurses get 35ish%, CUPE, SGEU(already asked for 35) maybe get 20%, think your taxes are going to go down with increased revenue?
A bidding war with Alberta for health professionals can only end badly from a tax perspective.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
The Bakken is huge – enormous potential, in fact. It is also “cheap” oil unlike the tar sands which are very expensive financially and environmentally to extract. The Bakken formation is another North Sea or Alaskan North Slope and it is light oil. It’s that big. In fact, aside from the Brazilian finds a mile under the seafloor, this is the biggest new source of oil in the world. The reason why it wasn’t extracted earlier is that new horizontal drilling techniques make this easy to get at it. Most of it is in Saskatchewan and North Dakota – a smaller bit in Manitoba. Yes – it is in the southern part of the Province. Yes – not everyone is employed in the energy industry. However, the Saskatchewan government will be collecting enormous royalties from this huge find which will recirculate into the economy of the entire province and will cause more multiplier effects. There will be more money to pay nurses, teachers, scientists at the universities including the U of S who further will contribute to the economy. There will be more money to pave roads and create (I hope) light rail transit in Saskatoon (you guys will need this so plan now!). Of course Regina stands to benefit more than Saskatoon given its proximity to these fields but the entire Province will feel the effects of the Bakken.
In the northwestern part of the province are the tar sands which have ,long term promise as well but nothing at all like the explosive potential of the Bakken which will be the energy story of the decade in Canada.
Saskatoon, however, does have proximity to the potash mines and I see more mines are opening and new Potash companies are springing up in Saskatchewan. A new, very promising one received huge converage on BNN this week. The mines are not far from Saskatoon. Potash is the commodity in the strongest bull market and I believe it is in a stronger trend than oil right now. Potash Corp. itself hit a new high and there is no end in sight for demand for its products.
The news is just too good in Saskatchewan right now. I see another 8% increase in Saskatoon RE prices at the end of 12 months from today. I also predict a 12% rise in Regina prices in the next 12 months.
I’m not selling my Saskatoon property and I’m buying stocks that have big investments in the Bakken.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Ron You are DREAMING!!!! No Increases for Saskatoon, maybe Regina slightly.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Hey negative Wesco, why so down? I could see your point of view if oil, potash, natural gas, uranium, all the different prairie crops were going down, but they are all going up, up, and up. There really isn ‘t anything you can do about it. We are right in the middle of all these resources. You sound just like the old NDP, let’s leave everything in the ground until our great, great, great, great grandchildren can exploit these resources. If we do that all our descendents will all have left this province for a better job, economy, house price, etc. etc.!
If we wait that long, no one will ever need these resources because they will probably have become useless by then. Let’s capitalize on them now while they are viable, and profitable. They will all provide usefull funds for the Saskatchewan economy, to improve infrastructure, to increase the prices of properties so that someday, if you chose to move to Vancouver or Alberta, you might just have enough equity to go there. Remember up until a year ago, our house prices were 1/8 of Vancouver prices and 1/4 of Alberta prices all thanks to the NDP.
I talk about boosting this province not bashing it, like alot of people on this blog, I wish more people here were positive and not so negative. House prices here are here to stay, and as far as I’m concerned, I think that they will increase each year from now until well into the future, not at last years’ pace, but at a more reasonable rate, probably in the range of 4-10%/year. I think that if a person feels their wages are too low to live here, then they should move to smaller communities in Saskatchewan, where house prices are more affordable. People all over the world have to make these kinds of sacrifices, I’m sorry for them that they didn’t or couldn’t have bought a house 2 or 3 years ago, but that is life, you can’t change what you can’t change. I still think that it’s not too late for people to buy houses in Riversdale for under $200,000 or a condo for that sort of price.
Another thing for Wesco, how can you explain that one small oil project in the northeast corner of the province could pollute all the lakes in the province? I’ve never heard of anything so ignorant!
May 11th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Ah, isn’t the Bakken formation oil shale, not oil? Extracting oil from that is more expensive & more difficult than getting oil from the tar sands, and most plants that use it just burn the stuff like coal to produce electricity.
What most of the people on here have been suggesting is that 1) the current boom in potash & crops is wonderful, but prices that go up can also come down and 2) if Saskatchewan’s oil was plentiful and easy to get at, we’d already have an oil industry: the fact that we don’t suggests that it might not be quite so cheap and easy to get at.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Ignorant? Ignorant is recommending people to pay $200,000 in to live in Riversdale!!!! So that can I have hookers, drug dealers, gang members, druggies, thieves, alcoholics and pimps walking up and down my street, what a great place to have children, give your head a shake and u can me ignorant!!!! Secondly ask the native peoples north of Fort McMurray how their land is doing now that there is tarsands production? ask them what their cancer rates are? Ask them how they are benefiting? Ask them how polluted the athasbasca river and their are? Ask them how horrible all the wildlife looks in this area!!! Have you ever seen a deer that lives around the tarsands, probably not!!! How about gregoire lake, where there is a small SAGD plant going up, it hasn’t even started production yet and that lake is polluted!!!! And you call me ignorant, who’s the ignorant one??????? I think it is one who doesn’t work and live in the oil sands. Only people that make false statements, about things they have never experienced are ignorant in my mind, does anyone else agree?
May 11th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Also William do you even have any idea what a small oil project in tarsands looks like? Small to the oils sands is bigger than any potash or uranium mine in the province I can guarantee you that. You have no clue and are one of those people who believe the hype that the media puts in your face, you are truly ignorant! Like Jrochest says if it was economically feasible to have production in the province it would already be there!! You’re probably one of those people who thinks there is a boom going on right now in Saskatchewan right? LOL!!! yeah a lower GDP increase than Manitoba last year is a boom right? LOL!! And yeah you’re right I’m ignorant!!
May 11th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Also William I am not down, my life is great!!! I’m a project engineer in Fort McMurray enough said. I just feel sorry for people that have to spend 200K to raise a young family in Riversdale, like YOU suggest. I can live anywhere, the only reason I do go home to Saskatoon is to visit my girlfriend who is finishing University, when she’s done, then we’ll decide where to live. (by the way I can afford a house in any area of Saskatoon) I am just waiting to see where I’m going to plant my roots and raise a family.
Lastly William, I know why you commented on Riversdale, because you have rental property there, YOU ARE JUST A SLUMLORD!!!!!!!
May 11th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
I have to agree with William, the negativity about saskatchewan is not helping. And Wesco you reasoning is a little off. You talk about enviromental damage that will occur with the oilsands projects yet you work in one of the most enviromental exploitave place in the country where you make all your huge money so you can live anywhere you want. Why does Alberta always have to be better than us. Theres alot we can do to keep this provice on the up and up, keep oil royalties down lower taxes to attract new buisiness.
Stop saskatchewan bashing now Ive had enough.!!
May 11th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Also if more and more young people moved to riversdale they could reclaim that what would otherwise be very expensive realstate and send the bums and drug dealers prostitutes packing while we wave goodbye and dont come back.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Hey Ryan, I love Saskatchewan!! It’s the most wonderful place I’ve ever lived!!
But one question where are these people all going to go? If it isn’t riversdale or alphabet city they are going to have to go somewhere… Who’s neighborhood is going to get hit next? Do you want them in you neighborhood? One of the worst cities for violent crime in Canada, they are going to go somewhere.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
If they cant afford to live in the alphabets it unlikely they will be able to live in our areas. My cousin who lives in calgary said that when house prices went way to high they all moved back to the reserves and only come in to panhandle and get liquor.
As for the prostitutes there will always be escort agencies, drug dealers hell they live in all neighborhoods some live in mansions and would snub our areas.
Want to get rid of drug crime legalise all drugs and tax them but thats a different story.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
The prostitutes and drug dealers will still be able to afford rent. I saw a place for sale today, MLS, main floor of smallish house, in east end, $800. Basements less. Prostitutes and drug dealing are probably better money than the single mom working the night cleaning shift at the Northstar. A bunch of prostitutes and a drug dealing pimp sharing a small 3 bedroom for 800, maybe a few on the couch, is economical. The single mom may go back to the reserve, unable to afford living away from parents.
The organized crime may just increase the density of scum per rental property. Or upgrade to a nice cheap condo conversion, laundering the illegit coin in the subsequent sale.
And William “I talk about boosting this province not bashing it”. Here’s one of our boosters. Doesn’t matter that we lead Canada in violent crime. Doesn’t matter that our oil is less accessible, lower quality and no where near Saskatoon. Doesn’t matter that China realizing we dye our white potash to look red (rumour I heard) would drop our prices and a swing in Uranium or Potash down (Saskatoon’s only 2 real commodities) would be a kick in the nards, or that grain prices, while high, still require a successful, frost free, droubt free harvest…
It’s all about “positive” comments. So let’s all say positive things and forget that our “boom” is tenuous and that we all think that with huge increases in housing inventory, increasing further with a whack load of condo conversions coming on line, and LOWER demand. If we ignore our problems and don’t tell others about them, maybe they’ll spend too much on a speculator trying to get out at the peak, and assume the over inflated price is justified. That way, Will can sell his houses and stop “boosting” our province.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
Just a reality check for Will/boosters:
“The top 10 high-crime cities in the Maclean’s list are led by Regina, Saskatoon and Winnipeg in a near tie at between 146.3 and 144.6 per cent above the national average.” I didn’t say a negative thing, a 3 rd party observer rated us poorly on objective scale
May 11th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I should clarify “I saw a place for sale today, MLS, main floor of smallish house, in east end, $800. Basements less”. It was for sale. The top floor rented out at 800 some/month currently, 500 some for basement. Still cheap places to rent out there. And this was east of river. The entire west end scares me. Not just a block or two, there is a lot of junk out there.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Hey Ryan that is a pretty racial comment you posted, regardless if it is your brothers or not. I do not believe for one second that the population in Riversdale is all natives and they “can return to the reserves”. Also you say escorts, well yes we will always have escorts, but the prostitutes on the streets of Alphabet city are not “escorts” they are street walkers, there’s quite a difference between a call girl and a street walker.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Don’t forget about all the white trash too. I’m sure drugs and alcohol and abuse is not just subject to only first nations people. There are plenty of other trashy people of ALL races and creed’s around. And another thing, the whole argument about how there are a lot of ‘young people’ moving into the neibourhood ‘cleaning’ it up…possibly in a span of 10-20 years…but who gets to deal with the crap until that point…do people move into a place thinking “oh the break in’s should peeter off in a few years” or “maybe i can walk to my car at night or have my girlfriend comfortable coming over without having an escort in a few years…”
May 11th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
You all have good points but every city has the same problems. As for crime come on we have the high theft and breakins and its the same people doing them over and over again and getting released. And most of the violent crimes are stabbings that happen mostly in the same areas. I was coming out of a restraunt in calgary and saw a guy blown away by a shotgun across the street at a petrocan gas station in a brand new vet, lot more gun violence in other cities. And if we want the real value of what Saskatchewan is worth offer it to sale to u.s or china
split the money between our population and we can all retire in these so called better provinces multi millionares and never have to be ashamed of where we live or work again lol.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
And one more thing as for Saskatoon, Regina and Winnipegs crime stats what do these 3 cities have way more than the rest, get rid of that element and crime would go way down. Ralph kline offered free bus tickets to all of them in his province and they all seemed to come here adding to are allready high proportion on non tax payers.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Charming guys!
Perhaps the solution is to try to integrate “those people” into the rest of the community rather than keeping them at a safe distance.
I laid my eyes on a long term development plan that the city has produced. I’ve never been real high on Riversdale but the plan, f it ever becomes a reality would turn Riversdale into one of the highest priced areas in town. Some people think its location makes it perfect for gentrification. Calls for lots of river view high rises and other cool stuff.
Better buy in before it’s too late.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
You are quite correct Norm did anyone notice over the last year to year and a half there has been absolutely no houses for sale in Riversdale south. Riversdale north however there was quite a few. In fact today is the first day that I saw one listing on here for the south area ever.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
riversdale would certainly improve its value socially and monetarily if the criminal element disappeared. but that isnt going to happen any time soon. the prostitutes and druggies will find a new stroll somewhere, and don’t think the precious east side is immune. they are a mobile bunch. and its not just a native problem, its a lot of different races involved. as much as some would like to “white wash” this area that is a totally racist attitude. and doesn ‘t get to the root of the problem, which is poverty, largely brought on by cost of living,and people that have poor coping skills, hence the disfunction. so unless you want to live in a gated community with armed guards, which is a reality in a lot of places in the world,where they kidnap and kill street kids and beggars, etc; to “clean” up the neighborhood, there has to be solutions to help people before we turn into such a merciless society. please do not say some choose to be homeless and prostitutes, no one wants to live like that. and the drugs are probably the only thing that takes the edge off a horrible life. you may wonder what has this to do with real estate? well there seems to be some whose sole purpose in life is to take as much as they can, the speculators, the landlords with unjustifiably high rental increases, who drive our cost of living to new levels of insanity, those are the people who should worry about karma. and lets hope the neighborhood pimp/drugdealer doesnt move next door to you then.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Ryan, Those are real people in Saskatoon who are the victims of those crimes. And the whole “every city has the same problems” line is just wrong. Saskatoon has way more problems than every where else in the entire country. Just because you can afford to live some where better, doesn’t mean these people and new home buyers don’t deserve better.
Saskatoon has more violent crime than anywhere else in Canada. Would be one of the USA’s most violent cities. Very few other cities have even close to the same problems. Crime is definitely due to socioeconomic factors. Doesn’t mean that it can’t affect other people in Saskatoon. And shot gun death? Didn’t some drunk guy in Saskatchewan just accidentally kill his wife with a shot gun? And some 15 year old kid bring a hand gun to his Saskatchewan school?
The Alberta is worse argument doesn’t hold water, it isn’t. Has less violent crime, fewer murders and fewer sexual assaults. It sucks that Ryan saw one of these happen, but we have more. The chance something bad happens to you is worse here.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Ah, isn’t the Bakken formation oil shale, not oil? Extracting oil from that is more expensive & more difficult than getting oil from the tar sands, and most plants that use it just burn the stuff like coal to produce electricity.
————————————————-
You are dead wrong. The Bakken oil is oil sandwiched in rock not oil shale. You drill a well and light oil comes out from the layers. There is no “cooking” or “treatment” procedure needed as with the oil sands of Alberta or the oil shale of Colorado. The Bakken wells represent much easier than the sands. With horizontal drilling it isn’t that hard to get at. The profits margins from Bakken wells are much higher than for tar sands.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I think all of us in Saskatoon are missing the point, the Bakken oil is no where near us. Yes, will be good for provincial bottom line as a whole. But job wise, all will be in southeast, either at sight or maybe Estevan. Any regional offices will be in closer Regina and corporate is still Calgary. So the Bakken formation, while good for province, does not even help us to beat Alberta, which out did us in wage growth this year – again.
Yes Saskatoon is near potash (so’s Moose Jaboom) and headquarters both potash and uranium. Oil may help provincial taxes, but actually likely draws young labour and skilled people AWAY from Saskatoon, as high paying jobs become available down in Estevan. I have friends from south Sask, and if high paying jobs and an expanding metropolitan culture develop in Estevan, they may move back home. Even if not home, Saskatoon generally has lower wages, oil wages in south Sask, 4 hours away, may be more enticing than waiting for our meat packing plant to slowly shut down.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
How would the bakken oil deposits (which I posted about months ago) not effect Saskatoon. Saskatoon is the private sector city in Saskatchewan. If big oil business comes here you can bet that headquarters will be set up in Saskatoon. Calgary is the furthest away from the oil sands yet all the headquarters for major oil companies aren’t in Edmonton.
There will be a higher blue collar consentration for these projects in Regina and Estevan because of the close proximity to the oil. They will make good money as the infrastructure starts and oil starts being produced. The high paying white collar jobs will be here in Saskatoon though.
200+ posts. I think that’s a record Norm
May 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Regina would headquarter new Bakken business. As is, some Calgary company is involved (ie Calgary is corporate) and Saskatoon, with both Cameco and Potash Corp… not a lot of oil there.
Regina, almost the same size, with a bigger down town, and a few corporate headquarters of its own, would be the logical choice as close by head quarters for Bakken. Calgary will be the actual head quarters. And Calgary is close to all the traditional oil reserves, hence existing companies controlling a lot of oil stuff. Same way a huge Potash deposit in Lumsden wouldn’t cause Potash corp to relocate to Regina. Saskatoon is not an oil centre, never was, never will be. White collar jobs will be in Calgary, maybe some middle management in Regina.
So Northstar, in summary
“The high paying white collar jobs will be here in Saskatoon though.” w.r.t. Bakken is the dumbest comment I have seen on this blog.
May 11th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Actually Northstar, could you repost your entire erroneous white collar comment (about Saskatoon being the “private sector city”) with Bakken HQ to be in Saskatoon, so we can all devalue your future comments?
May 11th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
I saw an article in the paper today that was talking about an oil find near Preeceville Sk. It was by a Winnipeg company! Oil companies aren’t flocking to Saskatoon. Oil finds in the far reaches of the province are more likely to benefit Regina (Bakken) or apparently Winnipeg (east) or Calgary (everywhere, since that’s where most companies are based out of).
Saskatchewan does need more oil companies with actual head offices here and refineries so we benefit the most from oil in the province. As is, even when a good find happens here, the money is going back to Calgary, or Winnipeg. For Bakken and the large amount of better quality (ie not low end north sask oil/tar sands) Regina is the logical choice for companies. Regina already has some energy companies, is in close proximity and is actually a pretty similar sized city, with a decent sized university that specializes in petroleum programs. Saskatoon and its potash company have little to offer most oil companies.