Welcome to Saskatoon Real Estate Resource Centre Blog Sign in | Help
Saskatoon real estate: Week in review (March 24-29)

Residential listing activity picked up the pace this week with a total of 164 single family homes (houses) and condominiums being offered for sale on the Saskatoon MLS. Total active listings in the residential category finished the week at 470 units including 298 houses and 127 condos. An additional 50 properties are displaying the “conditional sale” flag. Though still a relatively small number, the Saskatoon real estate market didn’t see inventory build to this level until into August during 2007. In fact, at this time last year there was a total of 254 listings including both active and conditionally sold, so there are more than twice as many Saskatoon homes available now as compared to the end of March last year.

 

Saskatoon real estate sales remained brisk with 94 homes reported sold on the local MLS, up from 86 the week before. A larger number of sales in areas 4 and 5, combined with fewer sales in area 1 brought average selling prices back under the $300,000 mark.

 

Overbid activity was down some over the previous week with 46 of 94 Saskatoon homes (49%) reporting sale prices that exceeded the asking price. During the same week last year we were up around 55% but the average overbid was a little lower at $14,076, compared to $16,130. You may recall that the market really began to heat up through April and May last year with average overbids topping $20,000 and $25,000 respectively.

 

Should we expect more of the same in 2008? It’s a pretty tough call and most would admit that they’d have never dreamed that we’d be where we are today. Logic has failed us over and over during the last 18 months so I can’t say I’d be totally surprised by another insane spring. On the other hand, I think that the sales numbers over the next couple of months, perhaps beginning with March, will finally start to show some weakening in demand. If the current inventory trends continue on an upward swing, we should start to see the pressure coming off of prices earlier this year. Given the massive deterioration in affordability over the past two years, the troubled North American economy and the fact that most major real estate markets across Canada are starting to experience at least some weakness, I can’t say I’d be surprised if our “suddenly” is looming just around the corner.

Saskatoon real estate: Week in review (March 24-29)

Notable sales

 

  • Meadowgreen bi-level, 972’, very dated, no garage goes $53K over list at $248,500.
  • North Park bi-level, 820’ with a single garage, dated, sells $40K over at $280,000.
  • Avalon area 1.5 storey, 952’, no garage, a stone’s throw from the freeway sells for just over $267,000.
  • Massey Place apartment, 1,050’ goes 20K over at $220,000.
  • Confederation Park 4-level split, 940’ without a garage fetches $295,000.
  • Lakewood apartment, 868’ sells for $250,000.
  • Adelaide Churchill bungalow on busy street, 1,004’ and no garage brings just over $328,000.

 

Geographic boundaries of “areas” defined

Process of data collection and calculation

 

I’m always happy to answer your Saskatoon real estate questions.  Feel free to drop me an email.

 

Norm Fisher

Royal LePage Saskatoon Real Estate
Posted: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:52 AM by Norm Fisher

Comments

Saskatchewan Real Estate - Saskatoon real estate: Week in review (March 24-29) | Saskapedia said:

PingBack from http://www.rawkmedia.com/Blogs/saskapedia/?p=22

# March 30, 2008 12:21 PM

callum said:

Wowzers "Lakewood apartment, 868’ sells for $250,000."

I've been tracking used apartments in that area for 3 years and that has to be a new record.

I see no slow down in Saskatoon's future. The above would be considered a bargain in the other major western Canadian cities, of which Saskatoon is rapidly becoming a leading member. With the best forecast economy in the country (maybe North America?) and the lowest prices in western Canada, I think we'll see a similar spring to last year. 500 or so listings is still not that many.

# March 30, 2008 12:30 PM

Weco said:

Callum,

You seriously don't see a slow down in Saskatoon? I think there will be major slow there within a year. I know it's cliche, however we need to always look to the west, i.e Alberta, to determine where Saskatoon is going to go. 3 years ago Edmonton took off like gangbusters and prices were out of control (like in Saskatoon Currently), it was a sellers market. But now if you look at things, prices are dropping by the day, because of high cost and i think one major player are double mortgages. People upgraded their homes thinking they will be able flip their homes no problem. Now with the slumping housing market people are taking major hits to the prices they "figured" they would get for their current homes. I believe that Saskatoon is going to follow their lead once again, we are always 2 years behind them and well the 2 year benchmark of their slumping house prices is approaching within a year. Also I believe that people in Saskatoon might also be in the upgrade their house mode, therefore there will be more desperate sellers in the near future to avoid the double mortgage dilemna.

# March 30, 2008 12:53 PM

Norm Fisher said:

It's a big hunk of cash for sure. To be clear, this apartment was in "Ash Creek" so it's fairly new. Not one of those Kingsmere Boulevard ones.

You're right that 500 listings is not a lot, though over many recent years it has been enough to keep price growth more closely tied with inflation. Also, just a reminder that incomes are also lower here when compared to most places in Western Canada. All things considered we are getting just as expensive as most other cities, except perhaps those which are furthest west. Vancouver and Victoria will always bring a far bigger buck unless we figure out a way to get us some mountains, and maybe an ocean. :)

# March 30, 2008 12:58 PM

Jesse G said:

I think the slow down will come in a different form than everyone thinks...with young talented money making workers leaving the provinces leaving only investors and older folks and some yuppies. Anyone that is independant and has plans for thier lives will realize they can't make them happen in this province out of the lack of amenities as well as the lack of affordable housing. It's not something that i think is in stone but who knows, anything could happen.

# March 30, 2008 12:59 PM

callum said:

Jesse G: In-migration is still strong in Sask.

Calg/Edm active listings have exploded to be sure. Saskatoon is definitely up this year but demand appears to still be there. Will listings reach 1,000 by the summer? Who knows, they could, I think you'll still see price increases even if they do reach that number...

# March 30, 2008 1:20 PM

Weco said:

Callum,

How could price increase if listings increase? That makes no sense??? Saskatoon is getting comparable to Edmonton and Calgary, however people there don't make the type of money as people in those cities do. I think first time home owners don't have a chance to create a worthwhile lifestyle in Saskatoon. People will have a nice house, but living off mac and cheese. i could be there with my $150,00 a year, but instead I'm investing, going on trips across the globe and loving life!!

# March 30, 2008 1:35 PM

callum said:

Weco said "How could price increase if listings increase? That makes no sense???"

I know, it makes no sense but it's happened all over Western Canada.

That's great Weco, your choices are your own. No one forces anyone to buy a house. Lemme just say with a 150K income life would be sweet in Saskatoon, in my humble opinion.

# March 30, 2008 1:41 PM

Weco said:

Callum,

150K/per would be sweet in my opinion too, but I don't live in  Saskatoon on a regular basis, only 8 days a month. I work in Fort McMurray. My flights are covered from my company and i have a $4000/month living allowance on top of that income. I wish I could make that in Saskatoon, however the greatest job offer i've had is $85k/per and was fairly recently.

# March 30, 2008 2:01 PM

Todd said:

Well Weco...  think there might be a few more like you here in Saskatoon?  Maybe that's partly why our values have increased.  Long range commuters, going to the oilpatch and calling here home.  I'm sure it's just a small portion of people but I hear of regular flights heading to Fort Mac and up north fairly regularly.  I'm curious how big this segment might be.

# March 30, 2008 2:10 PM

Norm Fisher said:

callum,

"I know, it makes no sense but it's happened all over Western Canada."

I don't think this is happening in Alberta and BC right now, at least from what I've heard. A friend of mine who moved to Calgary last year and has a real estate license says prices have definitely dropped there. There are tons of entry level homes for sale and very little selling. Familiar with areas in both markets, he thinks Calgary and Saskatoon are about on par price wise in that category.

# March 30, 2008 3:28 PM

Norm Fisher said:

Todd,

I think there are quite a few people like Weco around but there can't be much question that those who should be buying entry level homes are completely squeezed out. That's bound to take a toll eventually and if people do stop coming, we're screwed. Again, I don't see anything happening that would leave you upside down. There has been some big gains since you bought but I'll be surprised if we don't see some kind of a correction when the current run ends.

P.S. I've said this before. :)

# March 30, 2008 3:33 PM

Jason said:

Jesse, let me know when the bus is leaving this greed filled town and I'll climb aboard with you. I am to the point of becoming physically sick watching what is happening with our city.

I went and looked at a few condo's this weekend to get a feel for what is out there this spring, and I was amazed that every realtor I met with tried to pitch their properties in terms of how much I would be able to flip it for this summer and move onto something better. Is this what Saskatoon has become? To become an entry level home owner do you have to take part in this whole buy high and hope that some other "Greater Fool" (thanks Garth!)comes along and pays more, and repeat this process enough times until ones housing becomes affordable? I know this sounds insane, but I almost long for the days of the NDP / Liberal government when our economy was not near as fit as I could actually afford to live comfortably. With higher gas, food, and most of all, insane rent hikes, it seems now a person has to work a lot of extra hours just to get close to the quality of life we had just two years ago.

But I guess this is what we call progress here in Saskatoon.

# March 30, 2008 3:38 PM

callum said:

You are correct. I should have qualified my remarks with "at first". The market can take an increase in listings for awhile. In Calg/Edm however we're seeing 4 and 500 percent increases in actives (even more? haven't looked for awhile). Prices went crazy in Vancouver in Feb despite a %10 increase in listings. Saskatoon has seen a 100 percent increase in listings since last Feb and prices are rocketing higher.

# March 30, 2008 3:41 PM

Wesco said:

Correction, it should be wesco, not weco, sorry

# March 30, 2008 3:42 PM

Weco said:

Norm,

I'm interested in hearing your predictions in terms of a correction for Saskatoon. How much of a correction would make Saskatoon affordable again for a $90k/per income family with 2 or 3 children? In addition, would you know  what the average take home per household is in Saskatoon?

# March 30, 2008 3:47 PM

Heather D. said:

Ooh a nice strong listings week, I like!!!

Right now it's not shaping up to be a hot spring like the one before, it should be more balanced this time around.  There should also probably be less of an influx of migrants/immigrants to SK this year due to affordability and lack of professional jobs.  

Wesco,

I tend to agree with you.  SK follows the AB trend, and since we took off like a bat out of hell our ride will end a lot sooner - whereas AB is just now starting to experience a correction.

Ultimately the sooner Canadians start learning from American's mistakes the better off we'll be.  If our economy needs to be in the toilet for a couple years that will humble our attitude somewhat.  Nothing we are doing right now is sustainable.

# March 30, 2008 8:48 PM

Chris said:

Well they just hired 200 nurses that will be immigrating here, and there's a new company moving in to the new building across from the councourse at innovation place that's looking to hire 200 engineers, that on top of the company already in that building (my wife's cousin works for them) that is looking to expand by 200 engineers.

Point being don't count on reduced numbers of people moving to the city.

I'm glad inventory is up, however I think there's a good chance that more people are just selling to try and take advantage of the ridiculously high prices.  

I think an indicator that might give a better picture would be the amount of time listings are staying on the market.  If inventory quadruples but listings are still being sold in very short time, then it won't likely be helping prices stay down.

# March 30, 2008 9:27 PM

Heather D. said:

Chris,

I also wouldn't count on there being another 11,000 people moving into SK this year.  When are these engineers going to be hired, all within 2008?  I think with Saskatoon's affordability gap nurses can probably do better elsewhere.  Our wages are nowhere close to catching up, it will discourage some middle-earners and they'll look at other options besides Saskatoon.

If inventory keeps rising and sale numbers plateau these current listing prices will be met with some resistance I can assure you.

# March 30, 2008 9:45 PM

Norm Fisher said:

Wesco,

A family with a $90,000 income is probably doing alright. I think about 30% of gross income to service mortgage debt and property taxes is a decent "affordability" level. With that income, that family could easily qualify for a $300,000 mortgage. With some cash down, it shouldn't be impossible to buy a half decent house.

The most recent income stats I've seen from StatsCan are from December 2007 when the average income in Saskatchewan was $743 per week.

Affordability can be impacted in several ways including a change in housing prices, interest rates, and incomes. I was feeling like averages in the $250-$260 range were probably sustainable. At $260, average incomes can support an average priced home.

# March 30, 2008 10:13 PM

Alexander Trauzzi said:

Jason,

I experienced the same thing as you as I learned what was happening to the market.

It's turned into one giant rat race and everyone has allowed themselves to go greedy.

# March 30, 2008 10:14 PM

Norm Fisher said:

Chris,

I don't think that there's any shortage of opportunity here, that's for sure. I think the problem is going to be providing housing opportunities that will encourage them to come. Moving from Calgary isn't a real attractive proposition this year. People need to know that they can afford a decent standard of living if they're going to be interested in coming.

Some would like them to just stay home, but that isn't really the answer. This province has great opportunities for growth if we can get this housing thing fixed. We really need to get more land developed and build more homes.

There hasn't been any real change in average "days on the market" with increased levels of inventory. While 470 is significantly more than we had at this time last year, it would have been considered a low level of inventory five years ago when not much was going on. I think it has to climb a fair bit higher for any balance to be restored.

# March 30, 2008 10:21 PM

Northstar said:

Taking a quick,

    look at the weekly stats posted by Norm, this months avg sales price should be somewhere around $280 - $285k.  My calculations are rough as all I did was take the 4 weeks of review and added the avg sales price then divided by 4.  There's obviously a lot more to take in to consideration but it should turn out to be within $5,000 or so.  That would be a $16,000 + jump in avg house price from last month.  Only 2 months last year saw an increase of that size.  

    I'm interested to see this months final stats.

# March 31, 2008 2:05 AM

Norm Fisher said:

Northstar,

I can only imagine where it might have gone had you spent more time here pumping things up. :)

When I look at the sales transacted so far in March the average is very close to $300,000. SRAR will report on units "reported sold during March." I'd have too add 359 sale prices manually to get that figure for you, so I'm not going to do that but you're probably pretty close using the method you've used. Today's reported sales should be all that's missing from the equation.

Now, I know you're not gloating but it does seem to me that you said something like, "$285,000 by spring."

I think you win the praise for most accurate forecast.

# March 31, 2008 6:32 AM

Chris said:

Heather, the nurses are already hired and moving here AFAIK.

Not sure on the timeline for the engineers.  However, immigration may not be what it was last year, but don't fool yourself in to thinking that the housing is going to stop people from coming.  People probably won't be moving for minimum wage jobs, but there's plenty of professional jobs and salaries are increasing to compensate for the increased cost of living (not enough yet but getting there).  

Believe me I would love to see house prices drop somewhat and level off, but with all the economic hype around saskatchewan going on, I just don't see it happening.  I assume they'll level off, but i don't anticipate a drop (hopefully just less overbids, I would love for an overbid to be an exception, not the norm).

# March 31, 2008 9:13 AM

jimbo said:

Norm's not an overbid;-)

# March 31, 2008 9:30 AM

Todd said:

Chris has a good point about the professional jobs increasing in salary.  I know of some people that have gotten over 20% increases in professional jobs in their companies.  Some wages *are* indeed moving.  I don't know if it is widespread or just a few pockets here and there.

# March 31, 2008 9:39 AM

Norm Fisher said:

Chris,

Thanks for that. According to today's paper 297 have been hired and 105 of those are headed for the Saskatoon Health Region.

jimbo,

lol! Keeping a close eye on me? Mine did sell on Saturday evening and it did sell above list. My "week in review" only includes sales reported prior to 5PM on Friday. This one goes on the books today.

Todd,

I think, if I recall correctly, that incomes rose about 6-7% last year which was well above the national average. SREDA is predicting about 8% this year for Saskatonians. If we can keep that pace we will continue to make gains on Albertans and it will definitely help affordability.

# March 31, 2008 10:06 AM

George said:

Todd,

a 20% increase would only be in the following jobs; realtors, home builders, mortgage brokers, some trades

When I think of other professionals, I think nurses, doctors, cops, teachers, firefighters, engineers, accountants, mechanics.  I have friends in all these professions and I know that they have not seen a 20% increase.  I think even a 10% increase is few and far between for these professions.

I agree that most wages are moving, but I would compare it just above inflation.  

# March 31, 2008 10:21 AM

Northstar said:

LOL,

    I think it's 1 Northstar post = an additional $500 in average house price.  :-)

    To be fair, I did say $287,000 at the end of May.  If you're saying we might be close to that already then I think someone elses prediction might fall closer.  

    Although even if I am the closest, it has nothing to do with my experience, understanding of financial mass psychology, mathematical formulas or my 13 points to investing in real estate.

    "I was just a lucky guess!" ;-)    

# March 31, 2008 1:33 PM

ted said:

Just a comment on attracting engineers to Saskatoon:

I am an former Saskatonian, and an engineer, who has currently lives in Alberta.  I have been looking to come back to Saskatoon for the past year and a half.  I have had some job offers, but the current salaries just can't support the current house prices in the city.  

I know five other engineers here, who have considered coming back home to Saskatoon in the last year, but decided against it as they would all be taking a hit financially to afford the same mortgage payments.  

It comes done to the math in the end.  If house prices stay where they are, you have to pay people more to attract them to Saskatoon.

# March 31, 2008 4:25 PM

Wesco said:

I am also a Saskatoonian Engineer and I have also had job offers, but they just made the grade in comparison to Albert. Why would I take a job there and then live house poor? It just doesn't make sense. Sure an 85k/per job is good but I can make so much more where I am and then commute to Saskatoon. I would love to be there everyday, for the sake of my girlfriend, I just can't justify it.

# March 31, 2008 4:43 PM

Heather D. said:

Ted & Wesco,

For engineers that's saying a lot.  You guys get paid pretty decent coin, and to be hesitant on returning to Saskatoon says something about our affordability.  I'm sure next year Saskatoon will look much more inviting.

# March 31, 2008 5:32 PM

Tom said:

Ted & Wesco

Send your CV to Hatch energy they are setting up an office in Saskatoon. They pay the same as you would make in Calgary. :)

# March 31, 2008 6:04 PM

Norm Fisher said:

Sounds like we're not doing very well at recruiting engineers. :)

Thanks for posting the tip Tom!

# March 31, 2008 7:19 PM

maggie vancouverreflections said:

an excellent detailed report. i think my vancouver viewers will enjoy this post, so will link to it.

# March 31, 2008 10:35 PM

Larry Yatkowsky said:

Hey Norm,

And you guys think you got pricing problems.

I just came off an Multiple 8 Offer shift.  Good day for my folks but there are 7 others who feel blue tonight.

I thought I had seen the last of those nightmares and here I was in the middle of one.  Rumor on the street has it that multiples are back in vogue.

God bless insanity and low interest rates.

BTW - it was a 12% premium over ask that took the prize.  All cash, no conditions.  Yah gotta love it.

# March 31, 2008 11:47 PM

Robin said:

Last Friday night, I went to a meeting put together by Shannon Christensen. She's a homeowner who isn't directly affected by the housing crisis, but is deeply concerned with the city's (and the province's) lack of concern and blatant ineptitude with this very important issue. I just received this email from her, and I wanted to post it here, in the hopes that any of us who are concerned about the low vacancy rate in this city and the number of pending condo-conversions that could be approved could have a chance to act and write a letter to the city by 5PM today.

I apologize for the short notice--in hindsight, I wish I was more on the ball on this one, but here we are...

PLEASE READ THIS, AND WRITE TO CITY COUNCIL!!!

===============================================

Good morning,

If you are having difficulty finding a place to live or if your rent has been increased I'd like to suggest that you send your concerns to City Council.

You can use the contact form on the city's web site to do this:

http://saskatoon.ca/org/clerks_office/council/council_write_a_letter.asp

The next Council meeting is April 7. You must send your letters today, April 1st before 5:00 pm.

Your letter does not have to be long. A brief summary of your concerns is all that's required. You may also want to point out if/how much your rent has increased in the last 12 - 18 months.

Also, be clear about what you are asking from Council. For example, if you are writing to ask them NOT to approve the 21 condo conversion applications, state that.

Just a reminder that the city does not have authority to implement rent control. That is a provincial issue. We'll keep you updated on this.

As soon as David Forbes, Saskatoon MLA has drawn up the petition to the City to put a freeze on condo conversions we will have it available for download. You can print it out, fill it with signatures and return it to David.

NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT. Don't sit back and wonder how this will all pan out - we already know the answer to that question. Please take a few minutes today to send your letter to Council.

Also, even if you are not a tenant you can still express your concerns! Several people have sent letters to Council because they see how the housing crisis is affecting their friends, loved ones, clients or someone else they know. Others just feel that what's happening is wrong. Every letter will help!!!

Thank you for passing our emails on to others.

Updates to come.

Have a great day : )

Shannon Christensen

===============================================

As SOON as I get this petition, I'm going to do my best to get it out to everyone I know. I'll post a link to it on facebook so that you all can distribute it as well.

As Shannon says, now is the time to act.

Thanks everyone.

# April 1, 2008 9:36 AM

Jesse G said:

Jason,

sorry it took me so long to respond lol. yeah the bus will definitely leave this city and province to greener pastures (ones with less of a stink and i'm not even talking the farm animals).

I'm completely going to purchase Garth's book as it is at least one voice of common sense in a society that seems to value people by property they own.

I've been out looking at condo's as well and they are just SICKENING. It is sad too becuase in this city, the conversions aren't even done correctly..let me illustrate my point.

Here is a condo, 139,000-154,000 in sutherland. Horrible layout, probably new carpet new paint, new countertop etc. So small you have to go outside to change your mind.

http://homes.point2.com/CA/Saskatchewan/Saskatoon/Sutherland/1554633-Real-Estate.aspx

A friend in Regina sent me another link that showed that IF the conversion is done right...a person can feel a LOT different about a small space. This following space has a fantastic layout, lots of seatign for the kitchen (becuase of design), high ceilings, and a DECK....for the same price AND is less square feet than the previous one. Just shows what CRAP there is in the market up here.

http://www.mls.ca/PropertyDetails.aspx?vd=&SearchURL=%3fMode%3d0%26Page%3d1%26vs%3dResidential%26ret%3d300%26sts%3d0-0%26beds%3d0-0%26baths%3d0-0%26aid%3d1606%252c1631%26MapURL%3d%253fAreaID%253d1639%26mp%3d125000-150000-0%26mrt%3d0-0-4%26trt%3d2%26of%3d1%26ps%3d50%26o%3dA&Mode=0&PropertyID=6816190

# April 1, 2008 11:53 AM

Todd said:

George,

The wage increase was in a programming job.  Not something that is directly related to the boom.

-Todd

# April 1, 2008 11:59 AM

Alexander Trauzzi said:

Most of the "condos" are not in fact "condos" but simply 3 floor walk-up suites being sold at a ridiculously high price.

It's so funny because the boosters get so bold-faced excited about what an amazing thing condos are.  Nobody stops themselves to take stock of the real subject of discussion - for if they did it would go something like this:

"Wait - wha?  That's the 'condo'?!"

Again, this is such a print-market it can't be emphasized enough.

The quality of construction in Saskatoon has been clawed back on all fronts.

Building standards or not, there are still ways to make a home cheap and cut corners.  Don't put it past greedy people...

So then the reality hits that you're buying an apartment suite.

I would never pay any kind of purchase-money for any of the apartment buildings I've seen.

That includes Winnipeg!  They're just not made for ownership.

Refacing the suite with an earthy tone and boasting the heck out of the most meaningless already present qualities doesn't change what it is: an blatant ripoff.

Callum Captcha: "Canada doth"

# April 1, 2008 12:45 PM

Jesse G. said:

Exactly. Next thing the city will do is start marketing sheds as the 'new contemporary' homes...

What?!? It cost $1000 to build? Steal of a deal if we sell them for $80,000.

Sad thing it's about as worth it as the 'condo's' are....oh wait...lets add on another 200 a month for condo fees.

Like I told a friend, I may as well get a mortgage for a Cadillac Escalade...afterall it's NEW, probably has MORE square footage and has wheels....and WAY cheaper lol.

# April 1, 2008 12:58 PM

Heather D. said:

Robin,

Thanks for posting.  I sent in a good length letter, so will my brother.  We're both affected because we rent.  I sure hope city council and Atch start thinking about the people rather than the profit!

# April 1, 2008 1:10 PM

Robin said:

Here's a bit of an update from Martin Been (who lives in the Milroy):  please attend this meeting if you can.

====================================================

Greetings Everyone

The tenants of the Milroy have arranged for a meeting at:

the Parktown Hotel

Friday, April 4, at 7:00p.m.

room 140.

  After  meeting with various groups concerned with the housing crisis on Friday, March 28,  we realize that the scope of this ongoing struggle has changed, as the court's decision could potentially create and has already created a great deal of hardship on  the rental community.  

 A round-table discussion will be "whether to appeal" the Court of Queen's Bench decision allowing the city to approve The Milroy for Condo Conversion.  The lawyer representing the Milroy, Mr. Andrew Mason, will be present at this meeting.

We are extending this invitation to everyone who has been affected by the housing crisis created by our municipal government.

Please bring any questions or concerns you may have, regarding this decision, to the meeting.

Milroy case documents including the Court Of Queen's Bench decision are available at:  www.dufourlaw.com

Martin Been

# April 1, 2008 7:38 PM

Sam said:

I think immigration will continue to fuel the housing boom over here, I've been in Saskatoon for 6 month having moved from Australia. I have real estate in Cairns, (northern Australia) and for about 2/3 of what I paid for that I can get a down town condo here.

Regarding the engineers: don't forget intervac will be opening soon and looking to bring in scientists to fill that building.

The housing bubble in Australia is still waiting to burst (and that is 5 years on). There is some speculation we're already into the next boom and no one noticed the bust.

I might only be in Saskatoon for 2 or 3 years, but when I'm sure my rent is going to go up, why wouldn't I invest a little and actually live somewhere I can paint the walls and hang pictures whereever I like (for whatever reason I like).

For outsiders moving to Saskatoon the afordability here is what they could only dream of where they come from (well at least any Australians or Brits out there). The global real estate market is going very well. The definition of affordable housing for the younger generation is changing.

Sometimes it is wise to look beyond Alberta, there is a whole world out there and if you look at realestate prices for most places 5 years ago most have gone up quite sharply. And I don't think most places will take as steep a dive as the US based on the banking system, most countries actually make sure you can afford to pay for your house.

just my $0.02

# April 1, 2008 9:16 PM

Heather D. said:

Sam,

"The global real estate market is going very well. The definition of affordable housing for the younger generation is changing."

"Going very well" is not how I'd describe the global real estate market!  Going well for whom?  Certainly not for the average home buyer!  For banks and investors perhaps.  Not for families, the middle class, and CERTAINLY not for lower income people who work hard and contribute to society!  YES the definition of affordable housing has changed, for the worse.  Your mindset is like many other's I've heard - 'Saskatoon is such a deal compared to Europe, Australia, so and so, etc.'  Instead of beleiving that Saskatoon's real estate is undervalued how about you start questioning why the cost of real estate in Australia is so expensive?

There's NO reason why Canada, and even MORE so Saskatoon, should be a place where one can't afford to buy a house for their family.  Our country is vast, or economy is thriving, and yet the only ones reaping the benefits are the ones with the most money!  At what cost to future generations will further deteriation of affordability bring?  Who on this blog thinks we're headed in the right direction?  It all comes down to sustainability and we are all going get a HUGE D- on our report card!

Can you give me change for a loonie?

# April 1, 2008 10:39 PM

CG said:

i think the reason the city keeps approving condo conversions is due to the fact that it increases city revenue via property taxes.  The math is there.  I'm sure if you compared the taxes on a 60 suite apartment building versus the property tax on the same building after it has been converted to for example 35 -40 condos.  That's 35 - 40 single family dwellings to individually tax.  Isn't that wonderful.

Perhaps there are some figures out there.  There are a lot of extravagant projects that need to be paid for like river front developments, blinking lights on the Victoria bridge and so on.  Does anyone else see this  as a viable but not unnecessarily fair way to increase revenues? What does anyone think?

# April 2, 2008 4:07 AM

Norm Fisher said:

CG,

That's certainly a good point. I don't dabble at all in the "multi-family" arena, so I'm not that familiar with the tax implications, but a commercial agent in my office told me that taxes triple when a building goes from apartment to condo. Just a reminder though that the additional revenues do go to the public purse and would essentially reduce the tax burden on other property owners. How they spend it is another story altogether.  

Heather,

I have to wonder if the banks would say things are "going well."

# April 2, 2008 8:19 AM

Jedi said:

Article regarding affordable housing on national scale:

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2008/04/02/ont-housing.html

# April 2, 2008 10:57 AM

Heather D. said:

Norm,

True.  But that's their own damn fault!  Poor management and risky investing.

# April 2, 2008 1:23 PM

Norm Fisher said:

I agree, and they should suffer the consequences of their bone-headed decisions. Just pointing out that things are not exactly "going well" for them as you suggested.

# April 2, 2008 1:41 PM

Brian said:

Maybe if the government privatized a few of the utilities in this province they could effort to work help homeless and work on infrastructure.  The utilities bills are way cheaper in Alberta and you don't see convoys of Enmax trucks like you see here with Sask Power.

# April 2, 2008 3:16 PM

Alexander Trauzzi said:

Privatization only makes things worse - it condones a money hungry company with an unfair advantage in the market.

Rather than serve the needs of the people, it is now armed with a decisive weapon to gouge: Public infrastructure.

Privatization will only make the people more poor, count on it.

# April 2, 2008 3:56 PM

Heather D. said:

Yes I agree, I wouldn't want to see much for privitization either.

# April 2, 2008 4:02 PM

brian said:

Ok Alex why is it cheaper in Alberta do you think they get paid less in Alberta

# April 2, 2008 4:07 PM

Brian said:

Actually Alex you may be right if the PC's privatized Sask Power the unemployment rate would go up because they would only need half the employees, but the cost of power would go down.

# April 2, 2008 4:51 PM

Alexander Trauzzi said:

I'd like to see something showing that privatization has resulted in lower costs before getting into that.

The privatization of MTS here in Manitoba handed over a monopoly on communications infrastructure and nigh-exclusive consideration for municipal and provincial projects.

This has resulted in stifled innovation, outrageous costs for services and subpar overall network access.

In Saskatchewan you only have Directwest to act as your "what if".  Directwest is what happened because they wouldn't privatize SaskTel.

Instead, a company was designed that publishes directories and shoehorned them into an agreement with SaskTel.  The agreement?

People are forced to agree to provide private information to SaskTel or pay extra.  That's why it costs you to be unlisted, or delisted, or whatever they've changed the name to, to keep you confused.

Cup and ball.  That's the game of public to private corporations.  How can they leverage their past to do the least possible for the most possible.

When I signed up for my phone line, the agreement literally hinged on my agreement that they could provide information to Directwest!  Quite the impasse.

No thanks.  All privatization does is introduce greedy people into the mix.  It costs the people dearly in the end and the damage is irreversible.

I'd rather see a public corporation employ some skilled employees and service workers than turn into a methodical army of accountants and investor zombies.

# April 2, 2008 6:04 PM

Heather D. said:

Brian,

Maybe you should be speaking out on union issues rather than municipal corporations.  Private companies tend to pay their employees absolute garbage and treat them likewise!  Unions are in place to protect the employee.  However, some unions are poorly managed.  There needs to be a system for excising the incompetents and generating more efficient employees.  The majority of people in unions are just as hardworking as anyone else - it's the lazy and/or arrogant ones that give the word "union" a bad name.  These same idiots are also responsible for poisoning the workplace environment.

# April 2, 2008 6:13 PM

Johny said:

Brian,

You're comments are incorrect and uneducated.  Case in point, SGI Insurance prices vs. private insurance in Alberta... in some cases it's double.  

Ultimately, corporations really only have one directive and that's maximize profit for shareholders.  They are, by definition, 100% self interested entities.  Crown corps are, in contrast, setup to ensure that their shareholders (customers) get the best service possible.  

Another example, Sasktel.  Sasktel has one of the most robust and advanced technology infrastructures of all telcos in N.A.  The goal of telco in the 21st century is converged services over a single infrastructure.  I would venture to say that no other telco can offer Video on Demand (not just a bin of 5 movies, IPVOD can offer unlimited movies on demand, Sasktel currently offers at least 25 times shaw), voice, IPTV (this is important, content providers are beginning to talk about sophisticated digital rights management for HD content and sasktel is among the few that have the infrastructure in place to support that DRM standard), cell service, and home security.  All of this infrastructure development was not by accident,  Sasktel had service in mind when developing it.

Be careful what you wish for when regurgitating popular sentiment.  Sit back and think about it... form your own opinion based on fact.  If Unions didn't exist, you'd be working 12 hour days without any sort of healthcare, UI, or retirement saving plan.  Unions are the foundation of our quality of life today that you and so many others take for granted.  Read.

P.S. I don't work for Sasktel, just extremely proud of it and the rest of the crown corps.  If the Sask party so much as lay a finger on them, I will lead the revolt.

J.

# April 2, 2008 8:14 PM

300 said:

Johny = Spartacus

# April 2, 2008 10:16 PM

Neil said:

Johny.

The reason why you insurance is half the price of a comparable policy in Alberta is because Saskatchewan is so flat you can see the next car coming from 10 miles away.  Plus you can sit on your front porch and watch you dog run away for 4 days.....  LOL Sorry couldn't resist.

Seriously, Auto insurance in Alberta's bigger urban centers can be twice or more what you would pay in the rural areas.  The reason for this is RISK.  You have a better chance of having an accident, theft or damage in the higher density locations. In Alberta uraban area's have less risk.  In Saskatchewan, SGI just averages it out for everyone. So the people living in the bigger centers like Saskatoon and Regina are actually being subsidized by the Rural people.

I'm from Alberta, but I travel and work all over Western Canada.  I did a lot of work down in South East Saskatchewan until 2005, (Estavan/Weyburn area). SaskTel must have changed a lot since then because it was the worst run protectionistic Telecommunication Company I've ever run into, even worse that Telus.   I sure hope your right about SaskTel, because I may end up working down there again this year.

Don't get me wrong of all the place I've worked in Canada, that SE corner of Saskatchewan is the best I've run across.  Great people and lots to do, well in the Summer anyway.

# April 2, 2008 10:21 PM

Interested observer said:

Johnny and Neil,

Just a comment regarding SGI insurance rates vs Alberta insurance rates.  

A major reason why SGI rates are cheaper than Alberta is because the insurance systems are almost completely opposite.  

Prior to 1995, SGI/Saskatchewan utilized a "tort" insurance system.  In this system the claimants received money for the level disability and pain and suffering they endured as a result of their motor vehicle accident.  The longer they were disabled and sufffered with pain, the more monetary compensation they were deemed to be entitled to.  With this system there was a significant amount of court and legal costs associated with SGI settling all of these claims.  As a result of the high costs, the "tort" system became financially unsustainable and thus changes were made.

SGI/Saskatchewan converted to a "no-fault" insurance system in 1995.  This no-fault system provides coverage for all medical/therapy costs related to injuries suffered in a motor vehicle accidents as well as wage replacement.  It does not, however allow the claimant to sue or seek compensation for "pain and suffering"  Pain and suffering is never a factor in how they are compensated.  The results of this system is that insurance claims are often settled faster and at less cost for SGI.  Thus insurance rates for Saskatchewan residents goes down.  Around 2003, Saskatchewan residents were able to chose to be covered thru "no fault" or "tort" insurance.  The reality is, that I believe 90-95% of all drivers remain covered under "no fault".

Alberta on the other hand, is a "tort" insurance province, thus they face the same issues that SGI had prior to 1995.  

In the end, my point is this.  To say that Saskatchewan motor vehicle insurance is cheaper than  Alberta because Saskatchwan insurance is managed by a Crown corporation and Alberta is privatized may not tell the entire story.  The insurance systems are very different and you really aren't comparing apples to apples.  Prior to 1995 SGI wasn't in great financial shape, thus they made a change to remain affordable and feasible.

Anyways, back to the real estate discussion...

# April 2, 2008 10:55 PM

Heather D. said:

Yes, I'm proud of our crown corps too, well said Johnny!  SaskTel has infact been extemely innovative in their developments.  I'll be extremely angry if Brad Wall messes with them in any way!

# April 2, 2008 11:22 PM

Smokey said:

Leave the crown corps alone, but allow competition in the marketplace. Insurance in Alberta is relative. I pay way less than I would in Saskatchewan, and many of my friends do too. This is do too the fact we are responsible drivers. Back in the day when I lived in Saskatchewan my insurance was way lower than it ever would in Alberta, because I had not reached the magic age of 25.

I think it is appalling that people are against private anything because they fear higher costs. There should be private insurance, and utilities. Maybe the government run companies may become less viable, and so be it. In a capitalistic society individuals should have the right to the service they want.

# April 3, 2008 12:04 AM

Robin said:

Our petition to City Council regarding condo conversions is ready to  print and distribute.

We have also prepared a petition to the provincial government to  reinstate rent control, which will be presented either to the newly  formed Provincial Task Force on Housing Affordability or sent to  Premier Brad Wall. On that note, the new task force is seeking public  input. They seem to care what we think! Please visit  http://www.socialservices.gov.sk.ca/housing-task-force to submit your  comments to them online. Every voice counts!

See the attached PDF documents to print out the petitions.

The petitions are also available in .doc (Microsoft Word) format here:

http://www.groovity.ca/petitions

HELP US take action! This is an important step toward putting a stop  to converting condos in Saskatoon and to the evictions of tenants who  will not be able to find a home in a city with a 0% vacancy rate.

THE TIME FOR ACTION IS NOW - please pass this message on to your  friends, family and colleagues. Also consider bringing the petition to  those in your neighborhood (door-to-door) this weekend.

IMPORTANT: Signatures must be original and cannot be photocopied,  scanned, faxed or reproduced in any way.

WHAT TO DO WITH THE PETITIONS:

A. Bring your petitions to City Hall on Monday, April 7th between 5:00  and 5:45 pm. Someone will wait outside the building to collect the  petitions.

B. There are people willing to pick up your petition if you cannot  bring it to City Hall on Monday. Please reply to this email by SUNDAY  April 6th (afternoon if possible) to let us know that you need your  petition picked up.

C. Drop off your signed petitions at the office of David Forbes, MLA  before 5:00 pm on Monday April 7th:

Constituency Office

904D 22nd Street West

D. You can also bring petitions into the April 7th City Council  Meeting (6:00 pm), which is when 9 of the condo applications will be  addressed. Please arrive early so that we can add your signatures to  our total count.

Please bring your petition along if you are participating in the  Station 20 Community Walk on March 5th (10:00 am, 20th Street and Ave.  M South) to have people sign it during the walk.

If you have any questions please feel free to call me at 384-5504 or  reply to this email.

Thanks and take care,

Shannon Christensen

# April 3, 2008 12:05 AM

Ken said:

I just wanted to put in to the discussion on privatization vs. crown corp.

Here in Alberta there was a big push towards privatization along with increased implementation of user fees during King Ralph's drive to improve the Alberta advantage. A lot of the hype centered around over paid government sloths particularly Liquor Board employees.(oddly enough I heard that sentiment expressed when I was in Saskatoon last summer).

I think there is some value to privatization if it tends to improve services, lower consumer costs and create efficiencies within the system.

After privatiztion and deregulation in the utilities sector)in Alberta we now have higher and increasing

utility costs, service fees for almost everything and taxes that don't pay for anything except to build a nice surplus for the provincial government. (Conservatives of course)to brag about.

Sorry I forgot; we now have liquor stores on every corner and licence registries staffed by generally underpaid people and a government that attempts to download all infrastructure responsibility to the municipal government. And of course taxes haven't really gone down.

I'm not against privatization but don't look to Alberta as the model.

# April 3, 2008 6:55 AM

Norm Fisher said:

Privatization aside, it can't be denied that a little competition is healthy. Remember how SaskTel gouged you for years and treated you like a nuisance before competitors entered the market? Prices and service have both seen dramatic improvements as a result.

# April 3, 2008 7:21 AM

Alexander Trauzzi said:

I heard on CBC this morning from a lady in Australia who warned Canada against moving to a private day care model.

In Australia, they've actually had "box style day cares" develop.

Does that not scare the heck out of you?!

According to what she said, in spite of people getting money from the government to help cover costs, this one day care company has completely dominated the service and raised costs to impossible levels.

Overall, the quality of the service has suffered and there is rather unanimous agreement in the people that the meal programs offered etc, are sub par.

Would you care to guess where this Australian company has decided to break into the Canadian market?

If you guessed Alberta, you're right!  Because it is only there that can you ambush a mass of burned out slaves to greed.  Only in Alberta will they continually fall for the free market delusion.

This is just another indicator of how 21st century market models are doomed to disappoint.  All a business is today is a crank for investors to turn money out of.  The workers between them and the customers have no responsibility to be passionate or innovative.  Their only obligation is to turn money out with zero interest in the future.

Privatization takes companies that are mandated to have an interest in quality and turns them into just another corporation backed by greedy investors.

I long for days when planned obsolescence, walled gardens, persuasive advertising, stifled innovation and other artificially imposed reductions of quality are not the only methods of fabricating profits.

# April 3, 2008 7:40 AM

Todd said:

Alex, are you sure about Direcwest and providing information?  FYI, my phone service is with Shaw and I pay $0 (that's ZERO) for having an unlisted number.  That was one of the reasons I decided to switch -- I couldn't stomach that Sasktel would charge me $2/month for not listing my number.

# April 3, 2008 10:06 AM

Heather D. said:

Ken,

There are some great points you made, privatization isn't all it's cracked up to be.  I think most people are all about "the grass is greener on the other side".

Norm,

You're definitely right, healthy competition is good, it did help with SaskTel rates.  But I still go through SaskTel for everything, my phone, cellphone, internet.  I've gone through Rogers in the past for my cellphone and didn't like it.  I've went with Shaw for cable, didn't like it.  I just don't see the benefit of going through other providers if they don't offer anything better, especially when you can save with multiple services through one provider.

# April 3, 2008 10:07 AM

Todd said:

Heather, you are just being an idealogue when you say that non-unionized companies tend to treat their employees poorly.  Yes, some companies have treated their employees badly but there are just as many that treat their employees like what they are -- their most valuable resource.  I have been employed now for 13 years by a huge multinational company and I make a great wage with great benefits.  I'm not unionized and I don't think I'd want to be unionized.

Sorry Norm, I know this is going off topic, but it just rankles me when I see people just saying every company is greedy and wants to screw people around.